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Frame by Frame Skeletal Animations

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SuGokuZEQ2 View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, May 01, 2007

This sure will add a lot of realistic feeling. Except for chickens I think, they need more frames xD.

comaAK View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, May 01, 2007

It looks just like in the anime,I like a lot.
haha,I think Zeq2 is a crazy project,youa re so accurate to the series with your stuff and ideas.
When you translate your ideas 1:1 in the game you will achieve a revolution in DBZ gameplay.

meh View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, May 01, 2007

LionHeart wrote :

Forza wrote :
I for one love this. This technique gives a serious anime feel and is very accurate to the series. Imagine how you could nearly exactly replay an episode Smile


Seconded.



thirded ;p , hats down

Nataku ZEQ2 Concept Artist View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, May 01, 2007

stunning, I bet that you had this idea from a longer time, it really gives the dbz fell... the rig seems preety stable also, some fixes around the crotch area I sugest. But I know that you already spoted all the little rig errors. keep it up guys!! : D

Splash View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, May 01, 2007

WOW nice looks great! nj

Zero_SFX ZEQ2 Sound Artist View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, May 02, 2007

Very cool, nice and smooth so far.

J-Dude View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, May 02, 2007

Hmm. Interesting. Loving the cell-lines by the way Wink So, will this also mean that frames per second for the whole game will be at a fixed setting that matches the anime? It'll certainly look like the show itself. I'm sure it'll pay off nicely. I know what it's like animating based on frames in the show with a faster frame-rate and it always looked awkward and under-detailed. You guys however seem to know the proper framerate, so it looks nice. Might be a good idea to add some sort of motion blur however, as the jump back in the video looked rather jagged with the frame-rate. Then again, seeing as you're pressed for time when it comes to making media for updates, I'm sure it's just because you're perfecting the technique. It's an awesome animation as it is considering the small time you were allowed to do it.

spyxter Flutie Flakes View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, May 02, 2007

I hope this doesn't violate any headlines Smile


Zeth ZEQ2 Programmer View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, May 02, 2007

I hope this doesn't violate any headlines Smile


That's fine. Nice GIF by the way. Wink

So, will this also mean that frames per second for the whole game will be at a fixed setting that matches the anime?


This was initially the plan, but since this would cause a sluggish input feel, we had to establish solid workarounds. Fixed FPS rates WILL be offered optionally to hardcore players as well as used for a variety of things (such as spectator [read : episode watching] and instances where input is not a factor). Otherwise, we've preserved the look and feel of the series by restricting only movable objects to the fixed frame rate.

Might be a good idea to add some sort of motion blur however, as the jump back in the video looked rather jagged with the frame-rate.


Part of the "jaggedness" is due to how the series functions as far as sporadic movements go and differences of frame; however, if you are referring to the odd, slowdown during the bend and take off of the back jump, then rest assured that the behavior is PARTIALLY due to a timing issue with the encoding and capture process.

As far as motion blur goes, the series did not regularly present this during common animations instances. Don't mistake motion blur for the PAL/NTSC broadcast interpolation difference effect you may have seen on your television or unnaturally encoded clips. This is more typically known as a frame blending or frame filling process. You get this effect when you take something such as a source material of 24FPS and attempt to play it back at a rate higher than intended (such as 29.97). To make up for the missing frames, adjacent frames are blended together in with variance alpha channels. You can be sure that this effect will be present for users desiring the option for NTSC movement and playback rates.

Japieja Beard with a Conscious View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, May 02, 2007

Damnit Zeth, it's not fun anymore, seeing as you guys pretty much thought of every thing, every idea or every action that even slightly related the show.

How can we still fantasize about things that might be in ZEQ as you go run around and pop every one of those bubbles telling that it WILL be in ZEQ....

spyxter Flutie Flakes View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, May 02, 2007

Remember when things got VERY fast? I mean the mle scenes where they punched and kicked so fast that it seemed like the limbs became transparent. How/are you going to implement that without making the playing uncomfortable?

How are these animations going to respond to increased speed of the character? Is increased speed going to mean just increased fps rate?

Zeth ZEQ2 Programmer View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, May 02, 2007

Remember when things got VERY fast? I mean the mle scenes where they punched and kicked so fast that it seemed like the limbs became transparent.



This is what I labeled as speed mle in my previous remarks. It's implementation, however, is undisclosed at the time being. You can, of course, find out how we'll do it simply by watching a few episode of the series (who didn't see that coming?) Razz.

How are these animations going to respond to increased speed of the character? Is increased speed going to mean just increased fps rate?


Animation speed and character speed are two different aspects. The FPS rate for animations will remain fixed regardless of perceptual character speed -- as the series handled it.

spyxter Flutie Flakes View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, May 02, 2007

How much is it left till we see these features alive? Smile

frsrblch View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Thursday, May 03, 2007

So are you going to use the animation from each individual frame as a key from for higher frame rates?

Zeth ZEQ2 Programmer View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Thursday, May 03, 2007

So are you going to use the animation from each individual frame as a key from for higher frame rates?


Every single animation frame is essentially a key frame. Regardless of viewport frames per second, the animation frames per second is fixed to 24/30 depending on your PAL/NTSC accuracy settings.

nightz View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Thursday, May 03, 2007

well im not such a fan of skeletal models because of the lack of accuracy, but since your guys are going to give it per-frame details thats going to rock. Also be sure to have some kind of per-vertex animation backend, so you guys will be able to control exactly each thing Wink

Zeth ZEQ2 Programmer View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Friday, May 04, 2007

be sure to have some kind of per-vertex animation backend, so you guys will be able to control exactly each thing


As detailed in the thread's explanation, the mesh doesn't show but obviously has pose state vertex animations (not morph targets -- too limiting) planned for various portions such as hair, expressions, clothing, etc.

well im not such a fan of skeletal models because of the lack of accuracy


Skeleton models offer the same base movement capabilities as vertex -- the difference lies in the subtlety of deformable vertices that can be effected by factors such as wind or physics movements. You can, of course, mesh both worlds without hindering any accuracy limitations.

Additionally, I don't believe I'm familiar with ANYONE who has EVER EVER animated for a gaming project (or likewise in this case) that used pure vertex animations -- let alone frame by frame, non-interpolated ones. Even with Q3 I can almost guarantee that ROL doesn't employ a pure vertex animation approach as the pre-process step. Hehe. After flattening with Quake 3 and exporting to MD3, you are left with simple frame states of the vertexes. However, this does not mean you are utilizing vertex animations as a desgin step. It simply means you have pre-calculated flattened vertex states for skeletal animations. Unless of course you don't use a biped or bone structure with a rig of any sort on models?

Ravven ZEQ2 3D Artist View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Friday, May 04, 2007

Damn! you guys just love to shock your fans with all that unbeliveable level of details, don't ya? you have to admit that! Razz And every single time you post some progress my jaw reaches floor! xD You are SO amazing! Keep up!

Alex ZEQ2 Effects Programmer View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Friday, May 04, 2007

The only reason Skeletally Animated Models have a (small) reputation for innacurate animation is harking back to the days of single wieghted vertices with no-blending and a limitation of about a couple dozen bones.

These days, realtime skeletal animation techniques are verging on being comparable with offline techniques that professional CG artists use. With multiple weighted, blended vertices bound to a detailed skeleton and vertex poses per joint (e.g. a start and end angle is set, the vertices blended to the pose based on the angle of the joint, it's something I've seen used surprisingly little outside of Mirai) and whole vertex poses, the model can be animated exactly how you want, even down to muscles bulging with tension.

And, as Zeth said, using pure frame-by-frame vertex animation from the art production side is like using a pair of tweezers to move a pile of sand, especailly with the detail in modern game models. Animators would animate using skeletal animation in their 3D program. Back when real time skeletal animation was costly and restrictive, there was benefit for converting it to pure vertex animation, but as I've said, these days, if the skeletal system is implemented right, in-game animations would look spot on for their in-application counterparts, all that sticking to pure-vertex based animation in a game would do would basically to negate the advantages of skeletal animation: far smaller filesizes; shared animations; less work for the animaitor; far smaller memory footprint; seemless animation blending; dynamic ingame control over animations; far more detailed and cheaper collision detection using per-bone convex hulls. That's just to name a few.

spyxter Flutie Flakes View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Friday, May 04, 2007

... in other words, it'll be simply awesome Very Happy

Tranx View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, June 27, 2007

Wow that animation is awesome. Shocked The ZEQ2 Team is really right about being true to the show. Very Happy

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