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Zeth ZEQ2 Programmer View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Sunday, November 18, 2007

I just hope ZEQ2, doesn't roll over and die now. Tis the last in a long line of unfinished mods, would seriously dislike to see this one go down the pan.


ZEQ2 isn't a mod. Even in the skewed view that it's a game (which it's not), it's focus isn't parallel to any other projects out there. ZEQ2's purpose has and always will be technology appreciation in relation to translating one form of media (the DBZ series in this case) to another (an interactive 3D result) in an absolute accurate manner with ALL regards on preservation of detail and NOT on creativity on the transition. This is where the difference between a game and an interactive research project shows itself.

Regardless of the wheels of motion and shift towards the Zios engine and Zios family of projects, ZEQ2 cannot "die" as it was never a linear project with linear defined goals. A research project of this caliber does not have an active state, and rather is a continual process of growth in approach and technique. Even though 95% of the community (especially nowadays) is filled with DBZ fanboys, that doesn't make the project focus nor the intended results any different. Simply because majority of the people who follow the project blindly associate it with other mods/games/development projects doesn't make the matter any more fact.

The purpose of the ZEQ2 project was to attract developer interest and focus into realms of proper media conversion and more specifically NPR technologies in this case. One of the primary reasons we stopped with weekly updates was simply because the community was not consistent with our intentions. Time and time again we presented opportunities for intellectual conversations on developmental areas that we had so meticulously mastered, but time and time again we received no such responses. The insistence of the technical forum and lack therein of discussions only furthered the obvious -- the community only wanted eye-candy or contextual information about a project that misunderstood.

The fact of the matter is that our choice to use DBZ as a primary focus very well created the community and developer attraction conditions as they stand. Unless a couple dozen individuals find themselves with a heavy production NPR or relational media theory interest and wander here to converse, you'll very unlikely find many publicly spoken information about ZEQ2.

It's misconceptions and misunderstandings that brought most of you here. Once you understand what the project and development staff is all about, then the depths of our research can be truly unfurled.

WarFang_76 True Warrior View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, November 19, 2007

I guess you`re right most people want in-games and stuff like that they want you to advance the project as fast as they want it and don`t consider anything else but fast things to appear,anyway I see that you focus on quality more then fast apperance which is good so keep it up.Good luck Wink

tommety View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, November 19, 2007

I think you know very well what Raider meant with his little quote.

ZEQ2 in all its forms shapes and categories, has been one of the oldest DBZ farts around. Having the oldest and most promisting NAME go down the drain would pretty much bring an end to the era of quality DBZ inspired gaming art. I've seen the more straight forward 3d non cellshaded concept stuff, the less straight forward cellshaded form, felt a cold rock fall down into my stomach when for a good year it looked as though you received a C&D order, most of us have seen that, those farts will always be inclined to call it a mod instead of a completely new media -> game conversion attempt.

What brought the old farts here wasn't the ZEQ2 of today, most of the names I see posting in here were names I've seen well before this new path.

The lack of discussion you're after is because you're building on a reputation that isn't in the slightest applicable to your current ambition(s). That reputation is solely connected to the name, but now that you have started the new project on the exact same name and left all else still pretty much as it was forum wise, it isn't so strange to find that people misunderstand the concept.

Had you started under a new name, then you'd have had to build and gather a whole new community, one which might have satisfied your own expectations more than this one.

All this is to some extent a result of the choice you made to continue building on a name that was bound to a completely different reputation.

But that is just my view on this...

Phil ZEQ2 Webmaster View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, November 19, 2007

Oh by the way, I missed three critical works ..finished uni for the year. Sorry for the confusion.

Anyways, to argue on tommety's post, our aim was to attract developers with high potential, as with all teams that require the man power to help develop such project. With the quality we are producing, it isn't far fetched to contemplate other like minded individuals lurking on our forums.

And that results to Zios, our new project, which aims to move away from the DBZ fanboys, and culture a thriving community of like minded developers. We attempt to make clear our intentions early on, but we cannot control who comes to our site and how their interpret our actions. An attempt to introduce said project here is only to create interest to those who understand what we are doing, and in the end the people who we want in our community.

Zeth ZEQ2 Programmer View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, November 20, 2007

First off, tommety. I respect the well-structured, direct, unbiased, and constructively criticized post you made; however, the matter does still remain even in your words. I'll revisit the concerns now by responding to your comments individually.

I think you know very well what Raider meant with his little quote.


Of course. Although I used a line from Raider's post as a basis for my explanation, I realize that he's been a vintage supporter of the project with more understanding than most.

ZEQ2 in all its forms shapes and categories, has been one of the oldest DBZ farts around. Having the oldest and most promisting NAME go down the drain would pretty much bring an end to the era of quality DBZ inspired gaming art. I've seen the more straight forward 3d non cellshaded concept stuff, the less straight forward cellshaded form, felt a cold rock fall down into my stomach when for a good year it looked as though you received a C&D order, most of us have seen that, those farts will always be inclined to call it a mod instead of a completely new media -> game conversion attempt.


A few points of clarity need to made from this.

One is that we received a Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) removal request and not the more serious Cease and Desist (C&D). The former could have led to the latter, which is why we silently worked in the background for about a year. However, no exposure at all tends to even less developer attraction than having a DBZ base itself. Therefore, the site was rekindled.

The second point I need to make is that herein your statement lies the misconception I was speaking about in my previous post. You are viewing the project as something linear. That is, a project that has a finite goal of some tangible product to release. The fact of the matter is that we've always been more about the development of the technology and theory more-so than an actual final product. This alone is EXACTLY why we are classified as a research project and not a development project.

Research projects, in concept, have no end and therefore cannot result in failure -- as there will always be knowledge gained whether the work continued for 2 months or 10 years. Our very purpose is an appreciation for technology and theory in application to both the graphical and conceptual foundations for our basis.

So while some simply look for the stages of research that lead into publicly-available interactive representations, the fact of the matter is such a thing would be merely a minor stepping-stone -- deviant from the actual project intentions. Most must realize and accept that truth if they are to really appreciate the project. We've already succeeded in our goals by FAR as a research group.

What brought the old farts here wasn't the ZEQ2 of today, most of the names I see posting in here were names I've seen well before this new path.


That may well be, but it does not change the impact and intentions of our goals in the slightest.

The lack of discussion you're after is because you're building on a reputation that isn't in the slightest applicable to your current ambition(s). That reputation is solely connected to the name, but now that you have started the new project on the exact same name and left all else still pretty much as it was forum wise, it isn't so strange to find that people misunderstand the concept.

Had you started under a new name, then you'd have had to build and gather a whole new community, one which might have satisfied your own expectations more than this one.


Between 2005 and 2006, there was a 1+ year hiatus after hosting issues in which time we revisited our ENTIRE design structure, goals, and had a radical change in project members -- among other things. Once the new site (this one) was re-introduced on a new host, we very carefully explained our design changes and introduced a far more technical and less personal style of progress reports through information-relative threads. As time went by and changes became more abundant, we took very careful and planned care to make sure that the changes were well-noted and difficult to mis-perceive.

All this is to some extent a result of the choice you made to continue building on a name that was bound to a completely different reputation.


Although I do agree that using the same name might have lead to some of the complications in understanding we've had, I also think that the decision was justified as it was a descendant-continuation of loose forms of the original goals that spurred on the changes. That is to say, it was relative in form, but not purpose.

But that is just my view on this...


Do not fret. Your view, among others we've heard, has made impact on situations. Due actions have been EXTENSIVELY discussed and planned for some time now and will be executed when the time arrives.

WarFang_76 True Warrior View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, November 20, 2007

I agree with you Tommety,if this goes down the drain no other good DBZ games for PC will appear,but it`s pretty sad to consider that and I hope it won`t happen.However it`s not anything we can decide.

Zeth ZEQ2 Programmer View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, November 20, 2007

Oh the irony.

Grega View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, November 21, 2007

Maby its just me but the thing that really got me going on this site was after the restructoring. Reading about the ZIOS project kinda got me hyped up. Since im trying to learn some coding and maby some 3D design (be it models or levels) I kinda saw this as the perfect place to be. Since it was stated to be a researching project I kinda hoped for a comunity bent on that.

Sadly for me I didnt really find that. Oh well I stuck round anyhow Smile

Now while I still think of the name ZEQ2 related to a Q3 mod I look quite difrently on ZIOS but thats just a habit I guess.

Just wanted to speak my mind a little. Rolling Eyes

Forza View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, November 21, 2007

WarFang_76 wrote : I agree with you Tommety,if this goes down the drain no other good DBZ games for PC will appear,but it`s pretty sad to consider that and I hope it won`t happen.However it`s not anything we can decide.



I'd suggest you to read Zeth's posts again. It's a fairly long read, but well worth it. Maybe then you will find out what this project is about.

tommety View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, November 21, 2007

Well Zeth.

I think I used the wrong words when I tried to point out the confusion about wether it's a game or not. I did figure it had become something else, that only used DBZ as a focus point. Your choice of words frequently leave me puzzled due to english not being my primary language, although I'm constantly trying to improve my grammar and expand my vocabulary (you are contributing to that a lot you know..Wink ) so to a small extent I had to figure this out myself by rereading the about section.

I also knew that after reappearance of the website the order wasn't a C&D one, although up until that point I thought that was the only kind you could receive.

I'll admit though, that my 'appreciation' lies foremost with the accomplishment and plans to take DBZ entertainment to a level of unprecedented precision to the actual show. But that does not imply I want graphical stuff or anything, I'm just no technological smartass to even understand the inner workings.

And about the saving the name for this project, I never meant to imply that using the name was not a justified choice, just a confusing one for some.

I won't hesitate to say that the majority is still too lazy to really read though. Because even though your choice of words is sometimes a bit, complex, it's not too hard to notice this is not about a game, the 'game' if it has to be given a word (because I can't think of one) merely seems a by product of your actual intentions.

Just know that I've stopped seeing this project a game developing team.

Ravven ZEQ2 3D Artist View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Thursday, November 22, 2007

Well... First of tommety, we surely are not the first team to continue some kind of project under the same name but with partial/completely different approach/style/concept, as the original one had.

An excellent example would be (in)famous Commandos (4) - Strike Force. While the original Commandos (and it's continuations up to 3rd game - I'm not counting expansion packs here) was without doubt very difficult tactical strategy game, the newest one is 'simple' 'tactical' FPP shooter (at least most magazines say, that it is tactical. Which part of it is tactical? :Q).

The main point here is that, while the current ZEQ2 ZIOS project is something else, than the original project was, it still has the same sole base/concept. And that is to truly bring DragonBall Z to an interactive 3D. Sure, we made a lot of changes to the concept behind this ZEQ, but in the inside it's the same project as it was before, maybe a 'little' modified. Very Happy

tommety View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Thursday, November 22, 2007

Yes, but the issue was not that the project continued under the same name per sť. It was the confusion it brought along with it.

This project is no longer about developing a game.
Which it originally was. I know there are more examples of games changing drastically from intentions and aims.
But your example still remained with the same core focus: creating a game. It's easier to learn that the concept of a game changes drastically than the core of the project itself. I still have the urge to think of ZEQ2 as a game while it's become a research project that where a series is used as a focus point.

And I'm sure that other examples would also have their share of initial (or perpetual) confusion (or stubbornness to read). Wink

spyxter Flutie Flakes View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Thursday, November 22, 2007

I always see Zeth whining about how no discussion on tech-stuff arises, and how only dbz-fanboys gather in these forums. Yes, Zeth, that is what you do - whine and under-do in changing that.

From what I see, the only way to induce discussion about development is to ditch the Zeq2. That's right - ditch ZEQ2. And create a separate website about Zios and tech topics.

Of course I don't mean that you should completely quit with Zeq2. What I'm suggesting is to divide the game and the engine with tech stuff. So those whose only interest is dbz could gather here and those who are interested in tech stuff could gather in, say, www.zios.com/net/org/etc and try to become a developer community.

Of course, you're short in time and busy with Zios, but c'mon, how hard can it be to launch another site like this (format-wise)?

WarFang_76 True Warrior View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Friday, November 23, 2007

Your sugestion is good spyxter and this way Zeth might get what he wants,however who knows if it`ll be used?Not me

Alex ZEQ2 Effects Programmer View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Friday, November 23, 2007

Of course, you're short in time and busy with Zios, but c'mon, how hard can it be to launch another site like this (format-wise)?



Organisation, planning and development all take time. It's simple and quick to knock up an unprofessional, featureless forum with no content, but not when you want and need far more to achieve what's desired Wink Like most suggestions fans make towards the project, it's already been discussed in depth.

And no, Zeth isn't whining, he's constantly explaining in detail the desired purpose and direction of the project, which, despite so many explanations, is lost on a so many people, hence repeating the explanation so verbosely and so frequently.

WarFang_76 True Warrior View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Friday, November 23, 2007

I guess the reason many people don`t know the purpose of the project is because they don`t focus on a explenation(whatever that is),they enter the forum once per month and they head straight towards the news forum Rolling Eyes

spyxter Flutie Flakes View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Friday, November 23, 2007

Uber-sophisticated way of Zeth's posts is what prevents people from actually reading them. He should remember that what he's currently dealing with is mostly a bunch of *teen-year-old fanboys (fangirls? Very Happy), whose reading and interpretation skills are becoming obsolete.
Though I see a shrinkage in number of such individuals at the moment Smile

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