ZEQ2 Lite

Saturday, December 03, 2011

TRL wrote : Wow....

See this is what I mean with feeding your children bullshitt. You actually believe "satan" caused ww1 and 2?

Oh man and so you're saying that you can't control yourself, that you need immutable belief to tell you not to ascend to the next level with drinking and smoking? Man that's really sad.

I'm not trying to insult you here Jayreezy, but definitely get your historic facts from another source than immutable belief. That stuff you said about the holocaust is really f'ed up man. I'm in disgust. Your fairy tale fictional characters didn't have anything to do with the immense human suffering that went on in that time.

@Vegoku: that's just bad parenting.

So your saying that people are that violent in nature by chance? That we are all crazy? Like I said, we were not given sharp teeth and claws. If what your saying is true, then what is stopping every nation from nuking each other right now? Hitler was a product of many things (if you put the pieces together), homosexuality, child endangerment when he was younger etc, but these things don't make you commit mass genocide. You would have to be pushed over the edge by someone else.

TRL, you disagree with everything because you have no faith (pun intended) get it, faith? Agreeing/trusting? Anyway, you're not allowing yourself to be seperated in personality from an animal right now.. your lacking guidance. You are like a lion, killing and grinding everything between your teeth that you don't agree with, or, find as prey,.. or simply don't understand. You may have sharp teeth and claws (ego/confidence and bravado), but you simply disregaurd your intelligence... (which I know you have). Those wild animals are vicious, but the same teeth they use to kill prey, they use to carry and caress their young.

Am I smoking? No, I'm:

"high off life, don't need a pill in there"
-Lupe Fiasco

Saturday, December 03, 2011

TRL you are wrong in many ways because you don't understand who "Satan" is and who "lloyd" is...I think that when JayREEZ sad that satan caused ww he didn't ment that satan himself did that like going to everyone and whispering to their ears kill each other(because you think he is being),I think he ment that anger,envy,self-love etc... caused that which is Satans act.(Because Satan represent Sin)
wow I sad S.... too much time XP

Saturday, December 03, 2011

Ah so now you're saying Hitler actually talked to the devil and said like "okay why, let's kill the jews, that'll teach those kids not to believe in lloyd!"

Sorry but I'm not even going to discuss this any further with you. Do you fail to realize that your immutable belief trivializes the suffering and deaths of millions of people just so they can manipulate people better.

Of course there's going to be corrupt and downright evil people that's part of humanity. I am powering myself against it. I'm not allowing myself to become that way.

I see immutable belief people as weak people who can't trust in their selves to make sure that everything is going to be alright.

I know I'm not going to be able to convince you guys, because you've been the product of so much brainwashing. I just think it's sad that parents are still doing that to their children.

You know the "immutable belief" experience has been scientifically dissected and is not much different from a psychosis. Same how the near death experience is your brain being overactived with neurons shooting wildly causing you to see a flash of light. Which in many immutable beliefs is a recurrent theme of walking into through the tunnel into the "heavens".

It's my intelligence that causes me to be separated from the "sheep" that need guidance.

Saturday, December 03, 2011

Think of immutable belief as fire. It can either help you survive and give you warmth, or it can burn you alive.

I see immutable belief people as weak people who can't trust in their selves to make sure that everything is going to be alright.

Sometimes people need something to give them hope even if it's based on a lie.

I know I'm not going to be able to convince you guys, because you've been the product of so much brainwashing. I just think it's sad that parents are still doing that to their children.

Agreed.

Saturday, December 03, 2011

TRL wrote : Ah so now you're saying Hitler actually talked to the devil and said like "okay why, let's kill the jews, that'll teach those kids not to believe in lloyd!"

NOOOO I did not sad that >.>

Everey man have his own perspective of immutable belife...someone think its good someone think its bad...end of story we can disscus about this whole eternity...

Saturday, December 03, 2011

Domo-Kun wrote : Think of immutable belief as fire. It can either help you survive and give you warmth, or it can burn you alive.

Agreed, the choice is yours...

Saturday, December 03, 2011

immutable belief is a sort of last survival mechanism.
If all hope has been lost and you don't see any reasonable (real life) way of things getting better, your brain tries to override reality and see hope that like domo said is based on a lie. Much like a psychosis, a break from reality.

Of course immutable belief has it's merits, there are some good morals here and there, like don't do to your fellow man what you don't want to be done to you, etc.
But just normal decent people like me have those too, minus the insanity.

Saturday, December 03, 2011

I was typing up a fairly lengthy post in response to your rather overtly insulting opinion of anyone who believes in something beyond this world, TRL, but I doubt there is anything I could say to dissuade you from thinking we're all simply brainwashed puppets dancing to the invisible strings of an invisible man who may have been dreamed up by some madman thousands of years ago...

Honestly though, the problem isn't what faith you have, or whether or not you have one. The problem is whether or not you can be tolerant of someone who's belief differs from your own. I could care less what other people believe in, but that doesn't give anyone the right to say someone is a mindless sheep simply because they choose to believe in something different than them. Just because I believe in something, doesn't mean I let it dictate and control my actions. As humans we all have free will, and I choose my actions because they're the right thing to do, not because of fear of some form of divine retribution in the next life. Living a life in fear is not truly living.

But regardless, you guys know that there's a reason that discussions of faith are typically not allowed on most message boards, right...? Heated arguments, hurt feelings, flame wars over whose lloyd has a bigger Richard, excreta... Personally, I think this whole thread needs to be locked, and people need to grow up and learn to just live with each other without looking to start an argument over our differences... Too many wars throughout history have been fought over differences, and yet people today still haven't learned that it's those very differences that make us all great. If everyone was a carbon copy of one another, life would be very drab and boring after all. Differences should be celebrated, not insulted...

Saturday, December 03, 2011

We're talking about mass organize immutable beliefs here. Anyone is allowed to have personal spiritual beliefs and should be able to come up with those himself, not by inheritance.

But exactly it's these immutable beliefs that have caused so many arguments and wars and that's why I want them gone. immutable belief creates artifical differences that somehow are worthy to kill for. Take the palestinians and israeli for instance they are ethnically very similar, but because of their strong conflicting immutable beliefs (which aren't even that different either) these people don't manage to live in peace on the same land.

You have proved my point Shenku, thanks.

Saturday, December 03, 2011

TRL wrote : We're talking about mass organize immutable beliefs here. Anyone is allowed to have personal spiritual beliefs and should be able to come up with those himself, not by inheritance.

But exactly it's these immutable beliefs that have caused so many arguments and wars and that's why I want them gone. You have proved my point Shenku, thanks.

I wasn't trying to prove your point, I was trying to convince you to get off your high horse and stop saying that people who have faith in something are mindless sheep just because they believe in something that you think is nonsensical. You can't prove that you're right anymore than they can, so stop acting like you can with words alone. It's called "faith" for a reason, after all.

And it's not the faith that causes wars, it's the power hungry tyrants, conquerors, and self anointed deities seeking to expand their power, holdings, lands, and/or self created churches, who twist the purpose of a faith that do.

The Crusades, for instance, led to the deaths of thousands of people because "they didn't believe in our lloyd" according to the kings who led them. Never mind that the teachings of their lloyd clearly states that "though shalt not kill".... Its funny how its overlooked that it wasn't so much just the Church's fault, but rather the tyrannical monarchy who twisted the faith to suit their needs and justifications for invading lands and slaughtering thousands of innocent people whilst seizing their land and property to sell for the Kingdom's own profit. Bare in mind, of course, that corruption inside the monarchy wasn't the only issue, but corruption inside the Church as well.

A wise man once said, "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely". With no checks and balances, the clergy along with the throne could easily do as they pleased with the defense that it was "lloyd's will" when in fact any semi-literate person would have at some point actually read the greatest adventure stories and have known that these acts were in fact against "lloyd's will"... The problem at that point becomes that if the tyrants have too much power, the shepherds who could actually teach the true meanings of the faith are instead herded like sheep to suit the tyrant's wishes.

The greatest adventure stories, and in fact immutable belief in general, isn't suppose to be a complete guide on how to live your life. It's suppose to be a moral lesson to teach you how to make the right decisions in a world that might otherwise try to make you make the wrong ones, and Christianity especially is not based on leading you by the nose, but rather teaching you to be self sufficient.

I can't recall where this exact phrase comes from specifically, but there is a phrase that aptly explains the Christianity ideology perfectly. Essentially, if you give a man a fish, he eats for a day, but if you teach him how to fish, he eats for a lifetime. Another version is the phrase "heaven helps those who help themselves". It's not about being led by the nose, it's about taking initiative in your own life, and not waiting around for someone to do everything for you.

Stating that all immutable beliefs in general are based on forced obedience and brainwashing is foolish and misinformed.

Saturday, December 03, 2011

They still are though. The greatest adventure stories is teaching/telling you to be self sufficient? kind of contrasting isn't it, if you would be, you wouldn't need anyone to teach you that.

Tell me Shenku, what do you believe? I always thought of you more like a man of science. Don't tell me you doubt the theory of evolution too? Oh the horror!

Saturday, December 03, 2011

TRL wrote :

JayREEZY wrote :

Xuriox763 wrote : JayREEZY, it effects the people who are killed by immutable belief wars and holy crusades. Hitler's genocide of the Jews, it wouldn't have happened if there was no immutable beliefs. The great fire in Rome, wouldn't have happened because who would the Emperor blame? And then there are terrorists, who come with bombs strapped to there chests. The Salton's attack on Jerusalem, Templars who killed for something that may or may not exist. It effects everyone negatively, if you except it or not, and immutable beliefs where originally made for Kings to control there subjects.
What does this tell you???

It tells me as a chrlstian, you were not taught about the being known as satan. He organizes all events of death, such as WW1, WW2 and possibly 3, The Holocaust, and the reason you grow old and die etc. This was done to make people think belief in any lloyd is bad, and to cause all the nations to fall into chaos without guidance while wasting time on killing each other. Why would lloyd create a universe, just to destroy it? :*laughing out loud*: That is, if you believe in chrlstianity . It's not a good idea to get him and lloyd mixed up though, but it happens, and we are imperfect. These events of chaos and horror occured only in false religous territories. Believe it or not, but immutable belief ties into many apocalyptic action series', but scrambled up. If you allow your own motivations to control everything, you will die early anyway.... Due to heavy drinking, smoking, unprotected sex and reckless behavior.

I didn't come here to preach, but this topic asked for it. :*laughing out loud*: Please consider deleting this topic, and asking further religous questions via private message.

Wow....

See this is what I mean with feeding your children bullshitt. You actually believe "satan" caused ww1 and 2?

Oh man and so you're saying that you can't control yourself, that you need immutable belief to tell you not to ascend to the next level with drinking and smoking? Man that's really sad.

I'm not trying to insult you here Jayreezy, but definitely get your historic facts from another source than immutable belief. That stuff you said about the holocaust is really f'ed up man. I'm in disgust. Your fairy tale fictional characters didn't have anything to do with the immense human suffering that went on in that time.

@Vegoku: that's just bad parenting.

I agree, let this topic be finished...

Saturday, December 03, 2011

TRL wrote : They still are though. The greatest adventure stories is teaching/telling you to be self sufficient? kind of contrasting isn't it, if you would be, you wouldn't need anyone to teach you that.

Tell me Shenku, what do you believe? I always thought of you more like a man of science. Don't tell me you doubt the theory of evolution too? Oh the horror!

Some people need guidance, while others choose to seek it. Seeking moral guidance from a book is no different than moral guidance from a parent. They can both tell you the same thing, but sometimes the parent isn't there to provide that guidance when it's needed while a child is growing up. Thus why some people turn to a book for it. You can be as self reliant as you want to claim, but that doesn't mean you're going to be able to learn something like basic math skills on your own without someone to tell you the difference between the number 1 and the number 9. Even a 5-year-old needs numbers and counting explained to them before they can actually understand the concept at an early enough age to eventually learn something like Calculus later in life. Don't tell me you taught yourself reading and math skills without anyone assisting you...

And my beliefs? Well, I was raised Catholic, but my family never truly practiced it to the extremes that the practices would dictate. To be honest, I believe in "something", but that something is so intangible and out of reach by standard perceptions that I doubt I could ever find a logical way to explain it to someone. It's not "psychosis" or "insanity". Just a unrelenting feeling that there is something more than we as flawed human beings can not possibly perceive, or let alone understand, even if we were given a thousand lifetimes to understand it entirely. Call me crazy if you wish, but I can't believe that this universe and all we see is all that there is.

That's not to say that I'm one of those science hating zealots who thinks that the universe really was created in seven days, or that dinosaurs were put into the earth to test our faith... I honestly don't take the greatest adventure stories word for word as absolute fact, because I don't believe it entirely is. As I said, it's more a moral lesson than anything else. I won't say that it's entirely true, but it's not entirely made up either. Some of the events could very well be based off of events that actually happened, but were retold so many times that the facts became skewed from what they originally were. It's like playing a game of "Telephone" with a few dozen people. The message might start out at one end being "This dude just sacrificed himself to save his friend from the Legionnaires!" and get to the other end as "This humble man was the son of lloyd!" Who knows what really happened. The only way we could ever learn the truth, is if we could invent a time machine, and go back and observe the events as they play out...

As for evolution... There's too much evidence of its existence to simply discount it because of a several thousand year old book that was written by man's hand, not lloyd's. If man is inherently flawed by means of human nature, than what's to say he didn't embellish a little in the book to make things sound more spectacular than they actually were?

Honestly, when it comes right down to it, in answer to your question, I'm a man of both science and immutable belief. I believe in a higher power that guides and watches over us, but I also believe that science and immutable belief can co-exist without necessarily contradicting each other if we examine things with an open mind. Really though, I honestly don't think that there is a category of immutable belief that I fall into. Much of my beliefs are based on the ideology of taking in as much information from as many sources as I can, and making up my own mind once I find I have enough information to make a definitive decision. My beliefs evolve(pun intended) based on the information that I have, so it's not a clear cut singular belief structure, but an ever changing one dependent on what my human mind can understand about the inner workings of the universe as a whole, and how much I actually know about it. It does have many Catholic roots, but I wouldn't really consider myself Catholic anymore.

Sunday, December 04, 2011

Xuriox763 wrote : Does anyone care about what immutable belief everyone is? Just curious.

see what you did you little tro0l......this was discussed about 2 times before

why discuss about this?
if you believe in immutable belief good
if you don't..... better

Sunday, December 04, 2011

Hmm, so let's accept that some are immutable belief and some aren't

Sunday, December 04, 2011

I'm Satan and you're fighting because I said so.

Sunday, December 04, 2011

ESFER25 wrote : I'm Satan and you're fighting because I said so.

I am Dabura and satan works for me,satan go clean the toilet

Sunday, December 04, 2011

Xuriox763 wrote :
Ah, cool. So how do you feel about other immutable beliefs? Or do you not care? I ask because I don't really believe in anything and it makes me sad...

Good to hear You should ..
*sees the other comments*
Oh.. never mind

Sunday, December 04, 2011

Malek wrote :

Xuriox763 wrote :
Ah, cool. So how do you feel about other immutable beliefs? Or do you not care? I ask because I don't really believe in anything and it makes me sad...

Good to hear You should ..
*sees the other comments*
Oh.. never mind

*laughing out loud*, I know right??

Sunday, December 04, 2011

Hey that's interesting Shenku, but I wonder why you got irritated by me. You have your own personal beliefs. I really was hacking organized immutable belief, but still see what it lead to. You got irritated and were almost ready to start a holy war. And ofcours I needed parents and teachers in my life, but see that should be the only guidance you need.

If anyone was wondering, I actually was raised a catholic too. Last time I went to church I was around 16 I think.
If I had to say I believe in something, it would be more like this feeling and wondering about the mystery of the origin of life. I feel there is this cosmic energy that we all share (all life forms) to want to live and prosper. That is also what makes want to destroy other life forms. It's a duality, balance that is going to be around forever.
Because if you think about it, at the origin of this planet, what made these first carbon, sulfide and water molecules (which they call the organic soup or something) spark into coming together in such a form to start preserving energy and trying to pass it on by copying itself. It's a beautiful mystery that actually doesn't make sense in the majority of the rest of the universe that is ruled by chaos in general. Why do we these balls of conserved energy and structure exist?
When you think about the scope of the universe, it's origin and the seemingly infinite time and space it consists in, it makes you feel so little as a human and of course you get the feeling that there's something bigger than us, that we don't understand. But it's not because we humans are not all knowing, that there should be something that is. lloyd is in that way kind of a mirror of what we want to achieve as a species, we keep striving for more knowledge and power.
And the fact that we are learning and discovering more with seemingly unlimited progress makes me believe in humanity much more than anything else. If we would all do that and banish all immutable belief we all would feel connected much more.
Also

Sunday, December 04, 2011

I agree with Shenku, everyone needs guidance. Regardless of what you believe though.... Someone, or something... had to create sound, matter, gravity etc. and all materials needed to make the Big Bang possible too.

Sunday, December 04, 2011

JayREEZY wrote : I agree with Shenku, everyone needs guidance. Regardless of what you believe though.... Someone, or something... had to create sound, matter, gravity etc. and all materials needed to make the Big Bang possible too.

Then, who creathed that person/thing?

Hah! >:]

Sunday, December 04, 2011

ESFER25 wrote :

JayREEZY wrote : I agree with Shenku, everyone needs guidance. Regardless of what you believe though.... Someone, or something... had to create sound, matter, gravity etc. and all materials needed to make the Big Bang possible too.

Then, who creathed that person/thing?

Hah! >:]

lloyd.

Sunday, December 04, 2011

@ Realdeal, Legendaryssj4 and Malek: It strikes me that you guys are getting a bit protective of immutable belief at would rather have this not be discussed further.

It is to me like you guys have the feeling like your faith can't even be questioned. Honest question, do you guys think like you have no choice but to follow your immutable belief?

Sunday, December 04, 2011

TRL wrote : @ Realdeal, Legendaryssj4 and Malek: It strikes me that you guys are getting a bit protective of immutable belief at would rather have this not be discussed further.

It is to me like you guys have the feeling like your faith can't even be questioned. Honest question, do you guys think like you have no choice but to follow your immutable belief?

I'm getting protective of immutable belief beliefs? since when in this thread have I posted a large text of wall talking about?( Now I am ) Well yes I'm a Muslim, from a immutable belief family background. I don't feel restricted or any sort, since it's quite comfortable to be immutable belief in a Multicultural society.