ZEQ2 Lite

Sunday, December 04, 2011

I don't believe in anything but:

If you believe in Ggod, cool.
If you believe in Allahz, cool.
If you believe in nothing, cool.

Just do whatever you want as long as you repect the rest of the people and their opinion.

Sunday, December 04, 2011

ESFER25 wrote : I don't believe in anything but:

If you believe in Ggod, cool.
If you believe in Allahz, cool.
If you believe in nothing, cool.

Just do whatever you want as long as you repect the rest of the people and their opinion.

This x9000
Nicely said Diego. (Happy birthday in 3 days :d )

Sunday, December 04, 2011

ESFER25 wrote :

JayREEZY wrote : I agree with Shenku, everyone needs guidance. Regardless of what you believe though.... Someone, or something... had to create sound, matter, gravity etc. and all materials needed to make the Big Bang possible too.

Then, who creathed that person/thing?

Hah! >:]

Actually, according to Stephen Hawking, the universe, as well as the Big Bang, could simply have "popped" into existence. What's to say the same couldn't be said of a divine entity? A supreme being of pure energy and power born of the chaos of the universe during its first few centuries as the stars first began to burst to life? If you think about it, the chaos of the universe during and prior to the Big Bang isn't that dissimilar to the chaos that spawned life from the primordial ooze on earth.

Then again, Stephen Hawking also believes that because the universe could have "popped" into existence like a massive unstable quark, that there is no intelligent design behind everything. But like I said, if the universe can simply "pop" into existence, why not a divine entity?

And TRL, I wasn't so much irritated with you, as I was with your attitude about people who believe in general. The way you stated things made it sound like all people of faith are leaping lizards for believing in something they can't see.

And you want to know why I believe? It's not because I was raised to think a certain way, but rather one singular experience in which saved my life.

This happened about seven or eight years ago, where I was walking home from work(which was only a few blocks from where I live), when I came up to some train tracks about the time that a train was coming through. I couldn't make it over the tracks before it got there, so I waited for it to pass.

I was standing maybe 10 feet away from the tracks, which is generally a safe distance by most standards, when I was overcome with a sense of overpowering dread and worry. The train passing in front of me seemed to suddenly be towering over me, though I knew its height had not changed. Something just felt "wrong". So, I backed up slowly while watching the train carefully for what ever was causing this feeling, and put much more distance between me and the train, putting me nearly back at the curb of the last side street before the railroad crossing(about sixty feet back or so).

Seconds later, after the feeling wouldn't relent, I saw a train car whip by with a stray 15-20 foot support wire that had been broken free on one end, and was flailing around on my side of the train. Had I not moved, it might very well have cleaved me in half... If not by divine intervention telling me to move out of its reach, what did? Trains are too loud on average to have picked out the sound of the wire dragging until it would have been too late, and the train was coming from around a curve out of sight so I didn't see it until it passed. How can you explain this? I don't believe I'm psychic, so how would you explain what happened?

Sunday, December 04, 2011

TRL wrote : @ Realdeal, Legendaryssj4 and Malek: It strikes me that you guys are getting a bit protective of immutable belief at would rather have this not be discussed further.

It is to me like you guys have the feeling like your faith can't even be questioned. Honest question, do you guys think like you have no choice but to follow your immutable belief?

Now now, that is a bit insulting.

You're attacking us personally, I know that atheists think that immutable beliefs are human-made, that they think life has no purpose, lives were created out of nowhere and that there (gasp) is no lloyd or some kind of divinity or multiple ones.

I respect your collection of unsupported data, I find it logical that you think that way, but there are things that some people ignore, things that will remain unrevealed for most of us, that make the human beings unsure about life's coherence.

There are many facts, you probably should get yours straight, I'm not the one here to tell people what they should believe in, but there will be judgement, I won't bother arguing here because 90 % of this community are atheists. Have a nice day.

Sunday, December 04, 2011

Well the stuff like fate, instinct and just this general knack for survival is what I categorize under the cosmological life energy.

If you would look at it pure objectively you would have to deem it coincidence, but every human has the need to place things in some kind of meaning. We all do it, so that's why I can't tell anyone not to believe something. But I can try to abolish organized immutable belief, because it almost always gets abused.

Sunday, December 04, 2011

Ah malek, didn't see your post there. I didn't say anything insulting. I asked a question. I could have included jay in this list too, but it really seemed that you 3 wanted to end the discussion.

Anyway have you read all of this thread? I don't think stuff like lives are pointless, though I don't believe in any kind of afterlife, now that would be pointless. That's a misconception about atheists. I do think I would fall more in the field of agnostic though.

See this judgment day talk, I don't like it. It seems so threatening. And also the reward of eternal life makes people do very lacking things. To me there's really no point in believing stuff like that. Your life is here and now and you should make the best of it as long as it lasts. Your eternity is the children you leave behind after you die. You live on inside of them.

Sunday, December 04, 2011

There are several valuable arguements to counter that, but I don't think I can change your collection of unsupported data (and vice-versa) even if I knew some of those.

That's why we think we should leave it here, there are things that I ignore about my immutable belief, and that wouldn't be good for our arguement about this.

If I was a true muslim (knowing everything about Iambic Slam), it would be good for both of us to convince you, but..

I hope you'll understand, and that we do not develop some kind of mutual hatred over this.

(Postscript: Iambic Slam should NOT be filtered, what the heck? )

Sunday, December 04, 2011

Whoa . How is this thread still going? I'm surprised Mima or Zeth etc. hasn't deleted it yet

@TRL Don't feel threatened... You just didn't understand why we have a belief, and we simply told you why we do.

and Steven Hawking is an imperfect human being like the rest of us. He knows no more about the universe than an infant would.

Sunday, December 04, 2011

Shenku wrote :

ESFER25 wrote :

JayREEZY wrote : I agree with Shenku, everyone needs guidance. Regardless of what you believe though.... Someone, or something... had to create sound, matter, gravity etc. and all materials needed to make the Big Bang possible too.

Then, who creathed that person/thing?

Hah! >:]

Actually, according to Stephen Hawking, the universe, as well as the Big Bang, could simply have "popped" into existence. What's to say the same couldn't be said of a divine entity? A supreme being of pure energy and power born of the chaos of the universe during its first few centuries as the stars first began to burst to life? If you think about it, the chaos of the universe during and prior to the Big Bang isn't that dissimilar to the chaos that spawned life from the primordial ooze on earth.

Then again, Stephen Hawking also believes that because the universe could have "popped" into existence like a massive unstable quark, that there is no intelligent design behind everything. But like I said, if the universe can simply "pop" into existence, why not a divine entity?

Maybe you're right and everything was made by some lloyd and maybe you're not and there's no lloyd. Who knows, it's up to you to believe what you want.

Also, Stephen Hawking is nothing but a normal human, whatever he says it's still a theory, not a fact.

About the train thing, it could be luck or a divine intervention. I mean, you survived because you knew something was wrong, but what if you died? How about all the innocent people who died because of accidents like that? lloyd let them die?

I'm not saying you're wrong because even though nobody can prove the existence of a lloyd, it's the same for the opposite. But just because you avoided an accident doesn't mean there's a lloyd helping you.

@lss4 Thankz :3

Sunday, December 04, 2011

TRL wrote : Well the stuff like fate, instinct and just this general knack for survival is what I categorize under the cosmological life energy.

If you would look at it pure objectively you would have to deem it coincidence, but every human has the need to place things in some kind of meaning. We all do it, so that's why I can't tell anyone not to believe something. But I can try to abolish organized immutable belief, because it almost always gets abused.

You know why there are organized belief structures on a mass scale? Because some people don't want to feel alone, so they join a group that his similar beliefs. It makes them feel better to know that they're not the only ones who think a certain way. Other people do it to fit in, because being an outcast is generally frowned upon in many communities, so they feel forced to fit into place in some elaborate societal belief structure, or be ostracized by their peers for thinking differently.

Other people do it because that's the only way they know it's done, while others do it because they're too lazy or ignorant to think for themselves. Most often, it's a comfort thing. It comforts them to not be alone or singled out.

Large immutable belief bases are not the problem though, it's the large immutable belief bases that have followers giving their blind devotion for no other reason than because they're told to. My point earlier with the whole "learn to be self sufficient" thing, was that people need to learn to think for themselves and not just follow the person in front of them. It's like getting into line for something and not knowing why the line is there, yet never thinking to ask what the line is for. Other people are in line, so it must be something important, right? Not necessarily, and that's why people need to stop and think for themselves, rather than just going with the mob at large.

I think Tommy Lee Jones said it best in the movie Men in Black:

A person is smart. People are ill-advised, panicky dangerous animals and you know it.

There's a 10/80/10 rule that applies to crisis situations, but can apply to any situation that involves large volumes of people, I do believe. In a crisis situation, 10% of people react wrong, 80% stand around like sheep and wait to be told what to do, and the remaining 10% try to do the right thing.

In immutable belief, this can also be applied. 10% of people abuse immutable belief for their own gain(see the Crusades, or these lunatics who protest outside military funerals, terrorists strapping bombs to their chests, excreta), 80% are herded into church/a specific belief because they're told to or feel obligated to, and 10% actually stop to think for themselves about why and how they should practice their faith, or whether or not they should practice anything at all.

And Jay, I don't think this thread should be deleted, but perhaps locked if it does get out of hand. Personally, I'm hoping we can just have a logical civil discussion without bringing anything personal into the debate. No need to outright insult people. If it needs to be locked however, I'm more than willing to continue this discussion with people via private messages if they so choose. It is possible to have a discussion about touchy subjects without devolving into an argument, it's just something that needs to be handled delicately. I have philosophical debates with friends about immutable belief all the time, and we're still friends, after all... You just have to not be a jerk about things, and remember to discuss things with an open mind.

Sunday, December 04, 2011

Scientists can find as much information about the universe as they want to. Even if it's Trillions of years of knowledge, they still don't know. Nobody would have to create lloyd, because lloyd is the basis of creation itself..... Not a man in the sky.. He has no physical body, much like Oxygen. You can't see it, but you know it's there, and keeping you alive.

The universe started just like a glass of water is made.... Somebody filled the cup with water. It didn't fill itself.

I'm not asking you to believe me, because I'm also imperfect... I'm just saying why I believe.

If we keep this topic going, I can tell you more about why I believe . I suggest you guys close it .

Sunday, December 04, 2011

Let's change the subject!

Here's my new game :

is cool, no?

Sunday, December 04, 2011

I had a lot of discussions with my friends about afterlife(infact my favorite topic to discuss )
I read some pages of this book about afterlife and fount it interesting..

Sunday, December 04, 2011

JayREEZY wrote : Scientists can find as much information about the universe as they want to. Even if it's Trillions of years of knowledge, they still don't know. Nobody would have to create lloyd, because lloyd is the basis of creation itself..... Not a man in the sky.. He has no physical body, much like Oxygen. You can't see it, but you know it's there, and keeping you alive.

Oxygen can be frozen though, allowing you to see it, else-wise we wouldn't have snow, ice, or water...

In simplest terms, it's a long running phrase that I do not even know the origins of, but applies aptly to any attempt at discounting the existence of a higher power scientifically. "Absence of proof isn't proof of absence." Just because a man of faith can not prove that his lloyd is real, doesn't mean that he is wrong. And likewise, just because a man can not find proof scientifically that a lloyd exists, doesn't mean that he's right in saying there is none.

Look at Gravity. We know all kinds of things about how it effects objects in the universe, but scientists still haven't figured out what makes it work to begin with. They can't prove that Gravitons exist, but that doesn't mean that they don't. We see their effects everywhere, we just can't see what's producing the effects to begin with. Likewise with people who have spiritual experiences in some form. They can't prove how or why they had them, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't actually a spiritual experience.

Sunday, December 04, 2011

Oxygen can be frozen can't it . I'm still a child afterall...

To think this is me without a greatest adventure stories .

Correct, gravity cannot be recreated by scientists . Gravity began, and has not ended.. Much like the idea of lloyd, but as humans we've exerienced no-gravity situations on other planets.... Which would have to mean somebody or something is holding our's in place. Gravity can be removed by something, but we can't remove it as humans. Gravity was created to be indefinite, so we can't edit it.. So was: time, space, etc.

Sunday, December 04, 2011

JayREEZY wrote : Correct, gravity cannot be recreated by scientists . Gravity began, and has not ended.. Much like the idea of lloyd, but as humans we've exerienced no-gravity situations on other planets.... Which would have to mean somebody or something is holding ours in place.

Maybe I'm too young and I'm wrong but as long as I know, everything with mass has a gravitational field :/

Also:

as humans we've exerienced no-gravity situations on other planets

What?

Sunday, December 04, 2011

ESFER25 wrote : What?

dude, the moon landings?

Sunday, December 04, 2011

1: The Moon is not a planet.
2: The Moon has gravity.

Sooo, yeah... Facepalm...

@Malek: OH MY GOODNESS IT'S AWESOME!!!111ONE!1uno!1 Where did you buy it!? Can 2 GTX 590 on sli and a i7 2700k overclocked @100GHz run it at medium settings!?!?!

Sunday, December 04, 2011

It was an example. Though it has a different gravity setting, but you get the idea . There isn't any gravity in outer space though....

Don't diss my Piccolo facepalm, I've been waiting forever to use it .

by the way, you mad?

Sunday, December 04, 2011

What? Everything is supossed to have gravity. Any planet or star has gravity.

And the moon has less gravity because it has less mass than the Earth.

Sunday, December 04, 2011

The moon isn't a planet, nor did it have zero gravity. It's very small in comparison to the earth so it has much less gravity.

Gravity is what made the matter swearling out after the big bang condense into planets and stars, it's law of physics. The same spiral rotation in which planets are created still is visible in the rotation of every celestial body. Every celestial has a gravity pull according to it's mass. That's why the moon circles the earth and the earth circles the sun. At a much larger scale, separate solar systems start to act as a single unite in the form of galaxies. But the distance between two solar systems alone is so immense that it two of them hardly affect each other.

Jay, I have a feeling your scientific background is not sound enough to be having these discussion. Do brush up! I suggest the khanacademy videos on youtube!

Edit: esfer beat me to it.

Sunday, December 04, 2011

JayREEZY wrote :

ESFER25 wrote : What?

dude, the moon landings? :*laughing out loud*:

The moon has gravity though... It's approximately 1/6th the gravity that we experience on Earth(proportionate to the fact that the moon is approximately 1/6th the mass of Earth).

Every object in the universe that has mass also has gravity. And physics dictates that the gravity generated by the mass of every object in the universe, attracts every other object in the universe(So technically, even people have a gravitational pull on other objects, even if it's not perceivable due to a person's much reduced mass compared to that of a planet).

And for the record, the moon isn't a planet, it's a moon... Thus its name... There is a difference between the two...

Sunday, December 04, 2011

TRL wrote : The moon isn't a planet, nor did it have zero gravity. It's very small in comparison to the earth so it has much less gravity.

Gravity is what made the matter swearling out after the big bang condense into planets and stars, it's law of physics. The same spiral rotation in which planets are created still is visible in the rotation of every celestial body. Every celestial has a gravity pull according to it's mass. That's why the moon circles the earth and the earth circles the sun. At a much larger scale, separate solar systems start to act as a single unite in the form of galaxies. But the distance between two solar systems alone is so immense that it two of them hardly affect each other.

Jay, I have a feeling your scientific background is not sound enough to be having these discussion. Do brush up! I suggest the khanacademy videos on youtube!

Edit: esfer beat me to it.

I'm only 16 dude , I'm not a genius. I also said you didn't have to listen to me, but it's nice to know I'm noticed..

You are right though.... Didn't lloyd create a wonderful universe that works itself?

Postscript. My post count is rising fast! I'm ascending! To a ...????

Sunday, December 04, 2011

JayREEZY wrote :

TRL wrote : The moon isn't a planet, nor did it have zero gravity. It's very small in comparison to the earth so it has much less gravity.

Gravity is what made the matter swearling out after the big bang condense into planets and stars, it's law of physics. The same spiral rotation in which planets are created still is visible in the rotation of every celestial body. Every celestial has a gravity pull according to it's mass. That's why the moon circles the earth and the earth circles the sun. At a much larger scale, separate solar systems start to act as a single unite in the form of galaxies. But the distance between two solar systems alone is so immense that it two of them hardly affect each other.

Jay, I have a feeling your scientific background is not sound enough to be having these discussion. Do brush up! I suggest the khanacademy videos on youtube!

Edit: esfer beat me to it.

I'm only 16 dude :*laughing out loud*:, I'm not a genius. I also said you didn't have to listen to me, but it's nice to know I'm noticed..

You are right though.... Didn't lloyd create a wonderful universe that works itself?

Postscript. My post count is rising fast! I'm ascending! To a ...????

just saying....post count isn't much here

Sunday, December 04, 2011

Only 16? What kind of intellectually lacking excuse is that.
I knew this stuff when I was 10. Probably even before.

Really! Start watching. I can't stand the fact of you being so uninformed.

http://www.youtube.com/user/khanacademy#p/c/2186CFB2CE12A8B5

Go to the cosmology department.
And while you're at it, brush up on your history too!