ZEQ2 Lite

Monday, November 19, 2012

nice feature! this one can also be added in ZEQ2 lite also? but I think Earth Special Forces final going to be best Dragon Ball Z game.

ZEQ2 Lite is not a game presently. In addition to that, comparing two totally different projects is pointles for multiple reasons. I shall list a few.

-As far as I am aware, both ZEQ2 Lite and Earth Special Forces had multiple versions and re-works.

-Their goals and style are totally different in many ways

-There is no competition between the "teams" behind the games. On that note, there isn't even a team behind Lite.

If you want something to compare Earth Special Forces with, the closest thing from this community/these people would be ZEQ2 and not lite. That, however, is not unveiled to the public yet, so you have nothing to compare with Earth Special Forces.

Monday, November 19, 2012

comparison is pointless , but saying that zeq2lite is not a game is even more pointless , when you can play the thing , its a game

Monday, November 19, 2012

najeeb wrote : comparison is pointless , but saying that zeq2lite is not a game is even more pointless , when you can play the thing , its a game

Right, but Bradless considers a game the completed product of the development of the game, not an unstable public release.

Monday, November 19, 2012

comparison is pointless , but saying that zeq2lite is not a game is even more pointless , when you can play the thing , its a game

Right. When you can play something, it's a game. You cannot play ZEQ2-lite because it was never intended to be played -- thus it's not a game. No objectives. No goals. No way to win/lose. No gameplay. Not a game.

Monday, November 19, 2012

Zeth wrote :

comparison is pointless , but saying that zeq2lite is not a game is even more pointless , when you can play the thing , its a game

Right. When you can play something, it's a game. You cannot play ZEQ2-lite because it was never intended to be played -- thus it's not a game. No objectives. No goals. No way to win/lose. No gameplay. Not a game.

Just throwing this out there, but... imagination? If people make up their own goals, doesn't it constitute a self-made objective? With the ability to fight, and the ability to simulate a death of a player, people can keep track of whether they won or lost, if you exclude their complaints about whether it was legitimate or not.

Just because it is not intended as a game doesn't mean you can't make a game out of it. You can do a school lesson and make it LOOK like a game, when it is intended as a lesson. However, the students will think of the activity as a game, and not as a lesson.

I honestly don't know why we have to emphasize that ZEQ2-Lite was not supposed to be a game, since, regardless of what we know, they THINK and HAVE THOUGHT ZEQ2-Lite is, was, and forever will be a GAME.

Tuesday, November 20, 2012

your collection of unsupported data bradless , for me what ever I can play is a game

Tuesday, November 20, 2012

najeeb wrote : your collection of unsupported data bradless , for me what ever I can play is a game

See what I mean guys? They don't care what we know. They think it is a game, so they won't consider it anything else.

They aren't open to the facts (or claims) that say ZEQ2-Lite is not a game by true standards.

Tuesday, November 20, 2012

Linkxp500 wrote :

najeeb wrote : your collection of unsupported data bradless , for me what ever I can play is a game

See what I mean guys? They don't care what we know. They think it is a game, so they won't consider it anything else.

They aren't open to the facts (or claims) that say ZEQ2-Lite is not a game by true standards.

What do you mean by "we" , not open to facts ? what facts ? the ones stated above ? its still you're opinion , take counter strike for example , its a death match game , in zeq2lite its a free for all , there is a goal , the goal is to survive and kill

did I say about anything "not considering it anything more than a game" ? NO , but you also can't state that it's not a game

Tuesday, November 20, 2012

najeeb wrote :

Linkxp500 wrote :

najeeb wrote : your collection of unsupported data bradless , for me what ever I can play is a game

See what I mean guys? They don't care what we know. They think it is a game, so they won't consider it anything else.

They aren't open to the facts (or claims) that say ZEQ2-Lite is not a game by true standards.

What do you mean by "we" , not open to facts ? what facts ? the ones stated above ? its still you're opinion , take counter strike for example , its a death match game , in zeq2lite its a free for all , there is a goal , the goal is to survive and kill

did I say about anything "not considering it anything more than a game" ? NO , but you also can't state that it's not a game

My meaning was why debate about it when no one listens to Brad's interpretation of a game.

I said earlier that the game was conceived of as a game when it was meant to be for demonstration purposes.

Refer to my earlier comment.

Tuesday, November 20, 2012

but that's the thing , that's his interpertation

Tuesday, November 20, 2012

najeeb wrote : but that's the thing , that's his interpertation

And he's got facts and/or reason to back it. All you guys are saying is that "If I can play it, it's a game."

Tuesday, November 20, 2012

Linkxp500 wrote :

najeeb wrote : but that's the thing , that's his interpertation

And he's got facts and/or reason to back it. All you guys are saying is that "If I can play it, it's a game."

get real , those facts matter to him and at the end they are just opinions , it's not the universal truth , different people will take this differently

Tuesday, November 20, 2012

najeeb wrote :

Linkxp500 wrote :

najeeb wrote : but that's the thing , that's his interpertation

And he's got facts and/or reason to back it. All you guys are saying is that "If I can play it, it's a game."

get real , those facts matter to him and at the end they are just opinions , it's not the universal truth , different people will take this differently

Facts are not opinions. If you say you want a game, it needs a definitive purpose for being played as a game.

I was actually supporting your argument in the first place. I don't know why you are so bitter about this discussion. I didn't even want to argue the point, because I see no reason to enforce the idea of ZEQ2-Lite as not being a game.

It's counterproductive to argue such a point that the masses have confused reality with perception.

Tuesday, November 20, 2012

the goal is to kill and survive ? link I insisted because it really irritates me when opinions are enforced on others , those facts are by no means universal facts , if some one thinks of it as a game , let it be

Tuesday, November 20, 2012

najeeb wrote : the goal is to kill and survive ? link I insisted because it really irritates me when opinions are enforced on others , those facts are by no means universal facts , if some one thinks of it as a game , let it be

You aren't even reading my comments...

I DID say it was counterproductive to argue Brad'S point.

I DID say ZEQ2-Lite was considered a game by the masses, and that it wouldn't get us anywhere to argue that it wasn't a game.

When did I ever say Brad was right? I only said he backed his opinion with facts and reason. That doesn't imply that he is right.

Now, YOU leave it be, since YOU are the one that is NOT looking at the full picture. Keep an open mind, and then you could see why Brad thinks the way he does.

Wednesday, November 21, 2012

Linkxp500 wrote :

najeeb wrote : the goal is to kill and survive ? link I insisted because it really irritates me when opinions are enforced on others , those facts are by no means universal facts , if some one thinks of it as a game , let it be

You aren't even reading my comments...

I DID say it was counterproductive to argue Brad'S point.

I DID say ZEQ2-Lite was considered a game by the masses, and that it wouldn't get us anywhere to argue that it wasn't a game.

When did I ever say Brad was right? I only said he backed his opinion with facts and reason. That doesn't imply that he is right.

Now, YOU leave it be, since YOU are the one that is NOT looking at the full picture. Keep an open mind, and then you could see why Brad thinks the way he does.

YOU think I'm not having an open mind , YOU think I'm not considering his facts , while I do get what he is saying , my point as enforcing all of that on the masses is not good and I was in no way arguing with you , you took it on your self , I was generally speaking

Wednesday, November 21, 2012

...

Wednesday, November 21, 2012

for me its an unfinished project driven by the whole ZEQ2 lite community,
you can't call this a game which isn't finished or neither meant to be finished

Wednesday, November 21, 2012

Just throwing this out there, but... imagination? If people make up their own goals, doesn't it constitute a self-made objective? With the ability to fight, and the ability to simulate a death of a player, people can keep track of whether they won or lost, if you exclude their complaints about whether it was legitimate or not.

Just because it is not intended as a game doesn't mean you can't make a game out of it. You can do a school lesson and make it LOOK like a game, when it is intended as a lesson. However, the students will think of the activity as a game, and not as a lesson.

What you are describing, by definition, is an activity. A game has established rules, objectives, and a means to win and lose clearly established by the prior. You can have fun with ANY activity -- be it imaginative or otherwise, but by design, by definition, and by intention, ZEQ2-lite is not a game.

I honestly don't know why we have to emphasize that ZEQ2-Lite was not supposed to be a game, since, regardless of what we know, they THINK and HAVE THOUGHT ZEQ2-Lite is, was, and forever will be a GAME.

You are free to believe whatever you want, but what it boils down to is that by definition and the creators' intention, this is not a game -- not yet. What you twist or add to classify it a game is no longer what ZEQ2-lite was intended or released as.

your collection of unsupported data bradless , for me what ever I can play is a game

Besides the mere fact that you have zero say in the matter of what ZEQ2-lite is or is not, an example situation is someone who sits around and play with/enjoys throwing rocks or shooting at cans without established rules, objectives, and comparative ways of winning and losing. Is it an activity that they may be doing with others to great lengths? Sure. Is it a game? Negative. Even in some cases where there are some of those things, it really boils down intention and design -- not personal perception.

What the masses/populous believes is irrelevant in a case like this. In this scenario are only lying to yourself under false pretenses and unsupported claims to try and instigate a situation that you have no way of possibly being the victor. All of the facts back up my claims and you'd be a fool to argue otherwise without substantial involvement in the project internally. Do you really want to try and tell me what 10 years of my own creation has or hasn't produced?

Stand down.

get real , those facts matter to him and at the end they are just opinions , it's not the universal truth , different people will take this differently

I don't use opinions. You assume what I say/speak is what I believe. That is incorrect. My own views never come into play. I often argue AGAINST my own perceptions in order to remain neutral and objective. You think this is a matter of me projecting myself? I don't even personally support what I say, but that doesn't stop it from being logical nor the truth behind the history and goals of the project.

Even I am not going to stand up to something that's not refutable without evidence regardless of my view -- even if it goes against them; especially if it goes against them.

the goal is to kill and survive ? link I insisted because it really irritates me when opinions are enforced on others , those facts are by no means universal facts , if some one thinks of it as a game , let it be

Who said that was the goal? Since you are so incredibly knowledgeable on the subject matter, you should know that ZEQ2-Lite's inner design and plans were NEVER about actual frags/kills or deaths. Just because you try to insist upon that cliche shooter style of play does NOT mean that it was the way you are supposed to play. In ZEQ2-lite's plan, it was about using tactics and strategy in accurate Dragon Ball Z combat situations. Having ANY system of death/lives/frags/etc. was the EXACT OPPOSITE point of the design. It's just an artifact left from Quake 3 that was yet to be gutted yet.

You lack knowledge & comprehension in this situation on way too many levels -- both technical and otherwise. What makes you think you have any right to even speak lightly about this? This is the internet, sure, but if you want your thoughts to have any weight -- if you want to actually be respected and supported, you cannot just blindly say everything that comes to you mind without supporting it with a MOUND of factual context. Doing so you will only leave you a fool.

YOU think I'm not having an open mind , YOU think I'm not considering his facts , while I do get what he is saying , my point as enforcing all of that on the masses is not good and I was in no way arguing with you , you took it on your self , I was generally speaking

Mob perspective compounds on itself based on tradition and a limited scope of understanding. A person may be intelligent and open-minded, but the masses are ignorant, blind, and easily influenced.

I do not speak for/to the masses -- ever. I reach out to individuals and people with a modicum of intellect. We may not always agree, but at least there's an understanding that it's not a popularity contest. You must realize that what's right in this world is not always what the majority choose to believes; more than often, it's not. With an individual, there's a degree of mutual respect there that can never be had under even the greatest superficial fan arrangements.

Wednesday, November 21, 2012

I don't think you understand the difference between enforcement and emphasis.

If Brad was ENFORCING his opinion, he'd go around issuing bans for repeat offenders, and he'd likely not allow this very conversation as a discussion.

He emphasizes his opinion, backed by his own idea of the conception of the project. He is trying his best to EXPLAIN his view in a way that people will accept it. He is not forcing anyone to listen, respond, or comply. He urges them to do that of their own free will.

You could say that he is PRESSING his opinion. I'm sure you know that no one can control the other's mind through speech, nor can one control another's mind through enforcement. Therefore, your argument about forcing one's opinion on another is invalid. It's improbable any way you look at it.

I retain my own opinion on the matter, and it isn't that ZEQ2-Lite is a game or project, but I think it is fine for people to think what they want. For Brad, it's a project. For the players in general, it's a game. It's all due to the perception and experience you had when you learned about ZEQ2-Lite.

Also, even though you directed your wording at him, I still feel you got irritated with me for supposedly defending his stance.

Saying "get real" indicates that I am living in a fantasy.

Going back to the purpose of the game...

What exactly defines the purpose? The players or the system?

If it is the players that define the purpose to survive and kill, then there is no universal purpose to make it a game.

If it is the system, where does it claim that it's purpose is to survive and kill? There are no scores, no time limits, no rules.

Also, a game doesn't have a scale of how much of a game it is. A game is a game, no matter playable it is. And last I checked, playability depends on a variety of factors. First, it needs an objective. Second, it needs rules. Third, it needs to be free of game-breaking bugs. Fourth, games need to be GAMES, not projects.

A game isn't something that is currently in development until it reaches a completely playable state. Otherwise, they are still projects. This is more obvious with fan-made games. They START as projects, and are RELEASED as games. ZEQ2-Lite hasn't been released as a game, but as a basis for testing new functions and/or content added.

But, since not everyone thinks this way, I don't see the point in arguing about this.

Oh, and one last thing... Facts are NOT EVER opinions, and facts ARE ALWAYS universal, regardless of differences in lifestyle. Facts aren't something someone just dreams up one night. They are something that have inadequate proof against it as universally acceptable.

That should deter him from replying to this...

Wednesday, November 21, 2012

People like to generalize and try to fit things into neat categories that already exist without thinking because it's easier than dissecting, analyzing, and further sorting qualities of measure.

Drop your labels and preconceptions and stop trying to make the world fit an existing agenda. Diverge your mind and your perception is boundless.

Wednesday, November 21, 2012

Despite what you said, Brad, ZEQ2-lite functions perfectly as a game even if it's not your intention. You can compete with other players in a 3D environment; sure sounds like a game to me.

Wednesday, November 21, 2012

The only reason I will agree with Zeth opinion of ZEQ2 Lite not being a game is because he is the initial creator of the project

Wednesday, November 21, 2012

Forza wrote : Despite what you said, Brad, ZEQ2-lite functions perfectly as a game even if it's not your intention. You can compete with other players in a 3D environment; sure sounds like a game to me.

exactly what I wanted to say

I don't care if I don't have a say in what zeq2lite is and what it is not , it was not intended to be a game but hey look it is at the end of the day , yeah not meant for frags and staying alive , but hey look that's what's happening , you are the developer you might not think of it as a game but we do , what's the darn problem with that ?

A game has established rules, objectives, and a means to win and lose clearly established by the prior. You can have fun with ANY activity -- be it imaginative or otherwise, but by design, by definition, and by intention, ZEQ2-lite is not a game.

there are no rules in counter strike , its kill or die , and yet its a game , your intention , not ours

You are free to believe whatever you want, but what it boils down to is that by definition and the creators' intention, this is not a game -- not yet. What you twist or add to classify it a game is no longer what ZEQ2-lite was intended or released as.

your intention is you're opinion masses see it as a game

Besides the mere fact that you have zero say in the matter of what ZEQ2-lite is or is not, an example situation is someone who sits around and play with/enjoys throwing rocks or shooting at cans without established rules, objectives, and comparative ways of winning and losing. Is it an activity that they may be doing with others to great lengths? Sure. Is it a game? Negative. Even in some cases where there are some of those things, it really boils down intention and design -- not personal perception.

What the masses/populous believes is irrelevant in a case like this. In this scenario are only lying to yourself under false pretenses and unsupported claims to try and instigate a situation that you have no way of possibly being the victor. All of the facts back up my claims and you'd be a fool to argue otherwise without substantial involvement in the project internally. Do you really want to try and tell me what 10 years of my own creation has or hasn't produced?

I don't care what say I got in the matter , the facts , the so called facts of yours are your collection of unsupported data regardless , prove them other wise

I don't use opinions. You assume what I say/speak is what I believe. That is incorrect. My own views never come into play. I often argue AGAINST my own perceptions in order to remain neutral and objective. You think this is a matter of me projecting myself? I don't even personally support what I say, but that doesn't stop it from being logical nor the truth behind the history and goals of the project.

Even I am not going to stand up to something that's not refutable without evidence regardless of my view -- even if it goes against them; especially if it goes against them.

at the end of the day you are using your own opinions bradless , those facts of yours are not universal facts , its your perspective of seeing things

Who said that was the goal? Since you are so incredibly knowledgeable on the subject matter, you should know that ZEQ2-Lite's inner design and plans were NEVER about actual frags/kills or deaths. Just because you try to insist upon that cliche shooter style of play does NOT mean that it was the way you are supposed to play. In ZEQ2-lite's plan, it was about using tactics and strategy in accurate Dragon Ball Z combat situations. Having ANY system of death/lives/frags/etc. was the EXACT OPPOSITE point of the design. It's just an artifact left from Quake 3 that was yet to be gutted yet.

You lack knowledge & comprehension in this situation on way too many levels -- both technical and otherwise. What makes you think you have any right to even speak lightly about this? This is the internet, sure, but if you want your thoughts to have any weight -- if you want to actually be respected and supported, you cannot just blindly say everything that comes to you mind without supporting it with a MOUND of factual context. Doing so you will only leave you a fool.

oh sure it was not intended BUT at the end of the day those are the features that I see ingame , I don't care what was intended , I say what I see

link : Oh, and one last thing... Facts are NOT EVER opinions, and facts ARE ALWAYS universal, regardless of differences in lifestyle. Facts aren't something someone just dreams up one night. They are something that have inadequate proof against it as universally acceptable.

prove his facts are universal , and if so why do many disagree

Wednesday, November 21, 2012

Despite what you said, Brad, ZEQ2-lite functions perfectly as a game even if it's not your intention. You can compete with other players in a 3D environment; sure sounds like a game to me.

Define compete. Competition suggests there is a way of achieving a status of victory. There is no such way. Multiple people interacting with something doesn't qualify it as a game. This discussion is ENTIRELY about proper nomenclature and not what most people feel is a game.

I don't care if I don't have a say in what zeq2lite is and what it is not , it was not intended to be a game but hey look it is at the end of the day , yeah not meant for frags and staying alive , but hey look that's what's happening

It's what happening only if you assume that's what's happening. You are close-minded to the possibilities at hand so you apply your simian logic of just blasting everything.

you are the developer you might not think of it as a game but we do , what's the darn problem with that ?

I just explained the problem with that. Pay attention and respond DIRECTLY to my points or this conversation is going to be VERY short-lived.

there are no rules in counter strike , its kill or die , and yet its a game , your intention , not ours

Counterstrike has match winners, point systems, etc. ZEQ2-lite was never, ever about killing or dying. In your ignorance, you simply made it that way.

your intention is you're opinion masses see it as a game

I've already explained that my intentions are not driven by opinions. Beyond this explanation and post, I will not reiterate again. This is a subject plenty open for discussion, but if you refuse to use logic and detailed retorts to my precise points, things are not going to advance.

I don't care what say I got in the matter , the facts , the so called facts of yours are your collection of unsupported data regardless , prove them other wise

I have proven them. I've provided absolutely nothing but facts. If you continue to ignore the facts that you are being provided and pursue your tonality without substantiation, there will remain no reason for you to remain here.

at the end of the day you are using your own opinions bradless , those facts of yours are not universal facts , its your perspective of seeing things

I have personal perspectives, but they are not what I am presenting to you (nor what I present in any debate). The matters I present to you ARE facts because they are things that have been argued to me by others. You assume they personally align with what I believe just because I say them, but in fact, they are from a larger consensus and frame of understanding.

I believe ZEQ2-lite is a game personally, but the facts of the matter say otherwise. It simply does not have the qualities necessary (yet) to be qualified as a game. We cannot refute the technical and categorical aspects necessary to efficiently place ZEQ2-lite where it wants to be -- regardless of its status.

I may perceive it as a game as you do, but this view does not merit any reality and thus must be discarded when speaking in terms of actuality.