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New Dragonball anime to debut in July

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Shenku RiO Incarnate View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Sunday, May 17, 2015

Creator intent versus creator execution can also be very different from one another, as I myself have experienced in writing my first two books.

Long story short, what I had originally planed and intended for certain characters is not necessarily what happened in the story.

Likewise for certain abilities within the world I created which may not have been used in the same way that I designed those abilities to work to begin with.

Suffice to say, everything evolved in the story slightly to suit the story itself, and its telling. As such, extrapolating from my own experience, turning something from one format, print, to another format, anime, is the same as turning it from an idea in my head into a story on paper. There's going to be differences, it's inherent to the process of transferring from one medium to another regardless of any efforts to be "true" to the original source. You can either accept the differences and take them for what they are, or you can pick them apart and get upset over nothing.

As Max Brooks said during a panel at C2E2 regarding World War Z, his book versus the movie, paraphrasing here, but they're completely different stories. So, just accept that they're different, and move on. The movie being terrible doesn't make the book any less good, so why compare the two when they each can stand on their own. Granted the movie wasn't really "standing" so much as "hobbling".... Dragon Ball Z on the other hand, say what you will, the anime was a huge success, and can stand on its own just as much as the manga can stand on it's own.

Honestly though, I don't even understand the point of this debate...

Zeth The Admin View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Sunday, May 17, 2015

Creator intent versus creator execution can also be very different from one another, as I myself have experienced in writing my first two books.


Creative execution is essentially the same as what I defined as actual content (in the character scope in the previous scenario). If you are referring to the distinction between concept and implementation, those aren't really metrics that someone not involved in the creative process can measure.

My WHOLE point was about generalizations that are made in identification of anything. It extends FAR beyond the bounds of a simple manga versus anime debate and essentially applies to mislabelings done on a vast array of things by humanity over the last 10-15 years of the information age.

The maturity and wide use of the internet has led to gross simplifications of all kinds of media & information. The idea of having a unique footprint via attribute amalgamations is being superseded by the tendency to create a hazed line of superficial relationships.

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, May 18, 2015

>Zeth

No comparison should be done until it's the franchise itself that is compared (personnal thoughts). Comparing two animes from different decades to prove which franchise is the most complexe in term of quality and interpretation isn't a good idea.

Comparing the two original concept without any adds and deformation from the anime format is more appropriate since there can be a comparison of the original stories (and concepts (not like bullcrap ssgss)), fights, etc..... It's more equal.

>Shenku

It wasn't about the intention in the creation process, but about a general definition of what the Kaioken is. I would be curious to see another definition than this, since it's the most logical one and the one that is given everywhere.

I don't know Toriyama's thoughts and his definition about it (he might even have forgotten it Laughing ), but I don't know either which media defined it else way.

I understand your points, but the Kaioken always been defined like that as far as I know, so are all these parameters really useful to be taken in mind in this case ?

Shenku RiO Incarnate View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, May 18, 2015

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : >Zeth
>Shenku

It wasn't about the intention in the creation process, but about a general definition of what the Kaioken is. I would be curious to see another definition than this, since it's the most logical one and the one that is given everywhere.

I don't know Toriyama's thoughts and his definition about it (he might even have forgotten it :*laughing out loud*: ), but I don't know either which media defined it else way.

I understand your points, but the Kaioken always been defined like that as far as I know, so are all these parameters really useful to be taken in mind in this case ?



Well, try to think of it like this. With regards to the differences observed with something like Kaioken, whether in the manga, the anime show, or in an animated movie; regardless of the ability's visual, mechanical, or theoretical (hard numbers on paper) properties, the technique is going to be scaled somewhat to fit the story itself regardless of what the hard numbers on paper might say should happen.

The reason is simply that they're making the ability fit the story that they're trying to tell. They're not going to completely conform the story around the ability, that makes very little sense, and would make for rather uninteresting television... Which is why, while I liked the action sequences in Battle of the Lloyds, it felt a little stale otherwise, since the whole story was being forced based on that one singular ability... The story telling could have been better in that movie had they spent a touch more time thinking through the plot than mostly focusing on Beerus/Bills/whatever's constant whining about wanting to fight a Super Saiyan lloyd...

Anyways, I'm in agreement with you, Brad, generalized definitions are bad joojoo. That's like saying my cat is just like every other cat in the world because she's a cat, and therefor should be great at catching mice, love milk, and eats classy expensive wet catfood fed to her out of a crystal feeding dish, because that's what all the catfood commercials, internet memes, and anime stereotypes would have you believe. In reality, she's a lipid and lazy ball of fur who couldn't catch a mouse that's stuck in a mouse trap, doesn't drink milk, and won't even touch wet food... Seriously, I learned the hard way, after buying a bunch of cans of food, that she doesn't like it. She won't even try it... So, stereotypes about cats are just like generalizations about anything else, in that they're not always true or sometimes even remotely accurate.

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, May 18, 2015

>Shenku

I'm not talking about how it is shown, but what is shown.

And I wouldn't have expected you to do such a thing.. You compare a cat to a manga character's spiritual technique ?!

You went far, really far.. *intense laughter*

I'm just waiting for someone to give me a counter example for the definition of Kaioken I gave (which is the only one in fact).

Another example. Lazy definition of the Kaioken by my brother, who have seen more things Dragon Ball related than I did:

"It's a power up that consumes vitality"

Different words, more simple, but giving the same information.

So only with a proof of the contrary, Kaioken =

- Stats boost (except endurance related stats)
- Fatigue and body damages.

Shenku RiO Incarnate View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, May 18, 2015

I wasn't comparing my cat to manga, now you're just being silly...

I was using my cat as an example of how something can have a generalized definition that does not always prove to be true in every case. Not all cats catch mice and are afraid of dogs.

Just like not every time that Goku uses Kaioken will result in the exact same negative effects. Some circumstances in which it's used can vary, some to more extremes than others, and thus the effects of the technique on Goku can vary just as much as the circumstances themselves.

Seriously though, I don't understand why we're even debating this...

Grega Perpetual Traveler View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, May 18, 2015

Shenku wrote : I wasn't comparing my cat to manga, now you're just being silly...

I was using my cat as an example of how something can have a generalized definition that does not always prove to be true in every case. Not all cats catch mice and are afraid of dogs.

Just like not every time that Goku uses Kaioken will result in the exact same negative effects. Some circumstances in which it's used can vary, some to more extremes than others, and thus the effects of the technique on Goku can vary just as much as the circumstances themselves.

Seriously though, I don't understand why we're even debating this...



Well the explanation for the varying effects is that Goku is stronger. Basically he trained enough for his body to be able to sustain higher levels of Kaioken without suffering consequences as strongly.

kind of like you running to increase your endurance. The effect is still there, but its offset by the training.

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, May 18, 2015

The intensity and how long it is maintained are the two criteria that are affecting more or less both points I told in my last post.

But it's still is the same effects.

Seriously though, I don't understand why we're even debating this...



I don't know either. But that's how start every debates with me. Smile

Edit:

>Grega

As long as it is in the limits body, it can be multiplied at will. (limits being pushed by training as you said)

>Global

The question I would have are:

Where is starting the Kaioken x1 (at a certain power level ?)? Does it (Kaioken x1 limit before Kaioken x2)change after training ?

Shenku RiO Incarnate View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, May 18, 2015

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote :
>Global

The question I would have are:

Where is starting the Kaioken x1 (at a certain power level ?)? Does it (Kaioken x1 limit before Kaioken x2)change after training ?



That's somewhat tricky to answer seeing as Goku is really the only one we ever see using the technique, so it could vary greatly depending on the individual, but by how much is difficult to determine based off a statistical sampling of one person. Makes measuring the technique's impacts somewhat biased towards this one specific case.

Goku, for all we know, could have been a statistical anomaly. King Kai warned Goku to not go higher than x2, but he did anyways, and while he survived, his body was a complete wreck afterwords. When he starts doing Kaioken x10 or even x20, we have no clue if that level is even possible for other beings who learned the technique since it wasn't really ever shown or even discussed in the series at all. King Kai and Goku only talked about the technique itself, not others who had learned it, and that only briefly.

Heck, aside from Goku, the only other people we know for a fact trained with King Kai were Piccolo, Yamucha, Tenshinhan, Chiaotzu, and King Yama, and supposedly Krillin(I think, my memory on that part of the series in the Buu saga is a little fuzzy since I didn't actually watch all of them in order, and some episodes I missed entirely during its initial airing, but they do give Krillin Kaioken in a bunch of the games, so there's that...). Out of all of those, we don't know if any of them actually learned the technique from King Kai(aside from maybe Krillin, but games do not cannon make). And even if they did, we never see them use it, so we have no idea what effects it might have on them compared to what we see with Goku since everyone is different.

For all we know, Piccolo, being a Namekian, could potentially use it at higher levels and for periods far longer than even Goku due to his body's regenerative abilities, and could potentially have done so at much lower powerlevels than Goku had in order to achieve the same x3, x10, x20, excetra levels.

Either way, my point is we just don't know, and without further evidence to draw from in the series, the manga, or Toriama himself, we can't possibly know for certain how Kaioken would/should/could actually effect someone like say, Chi-Chi, or even Goten. The results could be completely different, since all the numbers we have to go on are somewhat specific to the only case in which we're being presented, which is Goku.

And let's face it, even as the other characters in the series see it, Goku has always been a bit of an unusual case. In statistical terms, Goku in general appears in the series to be an outlier, and by no means close to the average case. As such, basing anything off of him for determining the statistical effects of any technique would produce massive flaws in the results of whatever you're analyzing unless you're specifically analyzing just him.

TRL View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, May 19, 2015

Hey so about the topic.

I was totally shocked when I heard about this. It's something you would see for an april fools prank. New series preview have also been rampant on youtube for the past years. Now it's actually happening? I was so sceptic.

One thing I hope, is that they don't have a single returning character except for some small cameos here and there. I want Toriyama to start over completely. Take it into a different direction. So basically starting with powerlevel 5 too for the main character. Wink

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, May 19, 2015

>Shenku

Kaio tells him to not go over the 2nd level of the Kaioken because he wouldn't handle it in his actual state. (in the Saiyan saga)

With his 100G training, he was still training with Kaio's methods and techniques, which permitted him to, as Goku said, multiply by ten the Kaioken. (and that's what he did)

The critical level was the X20 here instead of the X4/5 in the Saiyan saga.

Again, the double of his limit.

But it's hard to know if the first level of the Kaioken starts at a certain power level or if it's just a basic boost of the actual power level when being calm.

20 times stronger ? Or 20 times the maximum of the Kaioken X1 boost can give ?

Maybe we will never know. :p

As for the others. I think everyone trained with kaio, and they all know about the Kaioken, but they didn't for the Genki Dama (Piccolo was surprised in the Namek saga and said Kaio hided this to them), except krillin, which was present when Goku did it on earth in the Saiyan saga. (but was also surprised because of it's size on Namek)

>TRL

Unfortunately, it seems to be a sequel of the Buu saga, replacing gt, and being faithful to the new beautimus craps.

TRL View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, May 19, 2015

I heard it just says it goes on after the Buu saga. Which could still mean 1000 years in the future. The pitchers probably didn't consider the end of Dragon Ball Z (with uub) to be a separate entity.

I also read somewhere that there were supposed to be all new characters. That also can still mean anything ranging from just a couple, a handful or everyone is new, the old guys are dead.

This could well be an anime version of dragonball online. Which to me is the best way to go. Of coure the actual storyline doesn't have to be the same, it can borrow the initial setting.
Apparently in Dragon Ball Online Goku and Vegeta were lost to history because they went off into deep space having a sparring match that created supernova's. Rolling Eyes

Update:
So the new anime is getting a manga adaptation by a guy named Toyotaro. He's the guy doing all the dragonball heroes manga that are out there. Which is basically a manga about the game with all kinds of wacky what if characters. This guy started out with the famous Dragonball April Fools fanmanga. Now he is living every fan manga artist's dream: actually continuing the real dragonball manga...

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, May 19, 2015

Mmh.. So that's what toyble was doing with toriyama.. (outside heroes)

At least, Dragon Ball April Fools' was a pretty good fan manga. I just hope there won't be some other crappy recolored Super Saiyan forms like we can see actually..

But we are not safe from seeing an lssj4 Brolly, Super Saiyan 3 Trunks etc.. Laughing

Acaryus Cutting-Edge View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, May 19, 2015

TRL wrote :
One thing I hope, is that they don't have a single returning character except for some small cameos here and there. I want Toriyama to start over completely. Take it into a different direction. So basically starting with powerlevel 5 too for the main character. Wink


Agreed! Hopefully those new characters will have a fresh new story. They do not have to be saiyans whatsoever.

TRL View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, May 19, 2015

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote :
But we are not safe from seeing an lssj4 Brolly, Super Saiyan 3 Trunks etc.. :*laughing out loud*:



Heh I don't see that happening since Toriyama has creative control. Besides those already exist within heroes. Razz

@Acaryus: Yeah!! Ultimate High five broooo!

The protagonist not being a Saiyan would be really really interesting. But also kind of cheeky of Toriyama Smile

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, May 19, 2015

Besides those already exist within heroes. Razz



I know, that's why I said that. Laughing

If you like the idea of a different character (not Saiyan), still in the Dragon Ball universe, there's some good fan mangas which already do that.

There was one telling the story of a namekian, but I don't remember the title.. Embarassed

LegendarySS4 View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, May 19, 2015

Having it after the end of Z would be a good setting. With the inclusion of Whis, Beerus and Jaco (who was part of the recent movie), Toriyama could also incorporate the existing Z warriors and further flesh out the new generation (Marron, Bra, Pan and Uub).

I'm more interested in the 12 Lloyds he set up at the end of BOG, however, only time will tell.

Since this is a Toei adaptation, I'm not raising my expectations when it comes to animation (just look at Toriko, Sailor Moon Crystal and One Piece), since this is a new anime after 18 years, hopefully they will spend some time with it.

Update: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/05/19/dragon-ball-super-website-launches-oped-announced/

They announced the opening and ending for this anime.


TRL wrote :

Update:
So the new anime is getting a manga adaptation by a guy named Toyotaro. He's the guy doing all the dragonball heroes manga that are out there. Which is basically a manga about the game with all kinds of wacky what if characters. This guy started out with the famous Dragonball April Fools fanmanga. Now he is living every fan manga artist's dream: actually continuing the real dragonball manga...



Also did the manga adaptation of Resurrection of F (3 chapters).

TRL View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, May 20, 2015

@Wh1t34Gl3(SAS): Yeah I've read fanmangas with Kuriza as the protagonist, Yamucha and even several ones with a Namek as a protagonist. They're just as entertaining without any Saiyan in there. Smile

Read most of them on here, but in french Razz It's good for practicing my french. Even my fanmanga of 9 pages is on there somewhere. *intense laughter*
http://www.fan-manga-Dragon Ball Z.com

@Legendary: Yeah Whis, Beerus and Jaco should definitely be explored. I could go with Uub too if Toriyama had any plans with him. I doubt it though.

The problem with continuing from that point in time is that you have so many characters with an already completed character-arc. The characters introduced at the end of Dragon Ball Z weren't planned to function in any story. They are just there to finish it, round it off. Look, the next generation is there.

Also at that point there are so many secondary characters, it's really hard to make a cohesive story with that. Too many restrictions. Too many excuses you have to think of for why a certain character isn't there, isn't helping in the battle. It's why GT decided to go out into space. But they totally left Uub hanging, they totally could've switched him in for Trunks.

I wouldn't mind the story starting in a different planet altogether and then the main character meeting the Lloyds, jaco and eventually Goku in some part of the story. New lovable and interesting characters are going to be created this way. Toriyama has enough creativity to do it and this setting would actually allow him to let it loose.


Ah thanks for reminding me of that Resurrection of F manga. I checked it out in English now. I'm loving it. Toyatoro is pretty slam good.

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, May 20, 2015

Ha ha, I was following fan mangas there too. (since I'm french, I have no problem with the language. ^^)

Edit: I have just read the first chapter of fukkatsu, seems good for now. Waiting for the marvelous escapades coming. :rolleyes:

LegendarySS4 View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, June 01, 2015

Some news, they announced Norihito Sumitomo to deal with the musical score. I personally haven't seen the Buu arc in Kai's format, though I've heard mixed responses towards this person's work (he also done the soundtrack for BOG/ROF), it's nice to see someone new as opposed to Kikuchi (he won an award a couple weeks ago, surely I suspected he would return).
As long as he can create some memorable osts then we're all fine Razz

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/2015/05/31/norihito-sumitomo-returns-for-dragon-ball-super-musical-score/

@TRL - It was nice to see Roshi doing some action Razz
Poor Yamucha being fodderised even further Confused

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, June 01, 2015

80/90 = EPIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIC

97/15 = SHIIIIIIIIIT

Acaryus Cutting-Edge View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Saturday, June 13, 2015

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Saturday, June 13, 2015

Wildest fights... As in BOG ?.. =_=

GoldenWarrior View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Sunday, June 14, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QinoGlZP_V4

Trailer HYPE

GoldenWarrior View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Sunday, June 14, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dQw4w9WgXcQ

Oh and here's a bit more footage

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