ZEQ2 Lite

Monday, June 14, 2010

TRL wrote : By that theory nothing would stop the Earth Special Forces team of using ZEQ2 models in their next release. If you have even the slightest bit sense of honor, you don't do that.

It's not only against the code of honor, but everything digitally created is still personal property. The only person who holds any rights to a model is the original author. It's up to him in what form he allows usage of his work or if at all, that's why stuff like the Creative Commons Licenses exist.

In case of Earth Special Forces they probably turn a blind eye if it's a modification for Earth Special Forces, but if you want to use it for anything else you have to ask for permission first.

I once again have to agree with TRL here, the mentality of a large part of this community is just horrible.

You don't go around and take stuff from others without asking either, do you? It's exactly the same, what you're doing is stealing and the worst thing is you don't seem to care about it or even take pride in it.

Monday, June 14, 2010

By that theory nothing would stop the Earth Special Forces team of using ZEQ2 models in their next release. If you have even the slightest bit sense of honor, you don't do that.

This is actually perfectly fine and accepted. We used Bid For Power models getting started and there's a mod called DBT (I think) that actually wanted to use ZEQ2-lite models until they can devise their own.

Sharing resources doesn't have to be exclusive to code and is something we have encouraged since the release of ZEQ2-lite.

The Budokai Tenkaichi 3 model is just highly illegal. I don't have a clue why you don't get that. One glance at that model being used from any kind of member of the Dragon Ball Z stockholders and ZEQ2-lite is shut down faster then you can say "I'm an leaping lizard"

Void and TRL have valid points. Using "ripped" media is not a good thing as you shouldn't be pulling assets that infringe on copyrights -- and thus can attract the attention of legal staff.

Personally I believe everything in all forms everywhere should always be free and available to anyone for usage. While the whole "respect for the artist" aspect is morally debatable, the legality aspects in this case really are not (that is if you want this project to actually keep afloat and not be hammered with legal desists).

Monday, June 14, 2010

TRL, Zeth, void and all others including Nemix..

Something came up to me, this whole hugging mister Fuzzles and moaning in this topic really upsets me..

Everyone has the right to be a uninformed participator (not meant in a bad way!) at modeling/mapping/texturing or even left/right clicking..

Just because one has skills does not mean he has the right to put someone down for him lacking skills at the moment..

Just like I have been making lacking models for Bid For Power (Goku with a mortal kombat style masks and stuff)
does that make me a good guy or whatever?

enough said in my opinion, I wish Nemix the best of luck in finding a good team who are devoted to making a cool new model/map/addon pack for ZEQ2-Lite !

Monday, June 14, 2010

Just a little addendum :

...if you want to use it for anything else you have to ask for permission first.

You mean you should ask for permission. Words like "have to" and "must" have very strong dictation. "Have to" suggests there are no other options wherein actuality there may be. While it's not your only course of action in a situation, yes, it is a widely agreed upon approach.

the mentality of a large part of this community is just horrible.

It's not a large part of the community as much as a few select users that are simply misguided or lacking in understanding. Strapping on reigns of disgruntle backlash is not the approach to reach people like this though.

Calmly and clearly explain to them the pros and cons of the situation with as much technical and factual background as you can before finally letting them make an educated decision.

This isn't a "hippie" approach either. It's the approach of any fair, level-headed man.

You don't go around and take stuff from others without asking either, do you? It's exactly the same, what you're doing is stealing and the worst thing is you don't seem to care about it or even take pride in it.

While I still am in agreement with TRL and yourself (concerning the legal matters), your comparisons don't correlate and shouldn't be applied in the same context. Physical matter is not (yet) able to be reproduced without noticeable resource usage -- digital matter is. This is where a HUGE difference lies and is something many music/video companies/organizations fail to consider or take into account.

Just because one has skills does not mean he has the right to put someone down for him lacking skills at the moment..

This is absolutely true; however, that equally doesn't mean you should give them a false pretense of having accomplished something wonderful and thereby never help them strive for new heights.

This is precisely one of the key points I was trying to make. You can be plenty constructive in your comments without being excessively flowery or excessively derogative.

Keep responses purely informative (robotic, if you will) without any type of opinion or bias natures included and lines will be crossed on neither side.

Monday, June 14, 2010

1st Quote:
Seeing as it is international law I think "have to" is mostly accurate. Of course we can go all philosophical on this including "you don't have to breathe" but I do think that's out of the scope of this and in general usage of "have to" it fits pretty much, similar to how "you have to eat" works. But anyway, I'm fine with "should" too, doesn't really change what I was trying to say.

Also to clarify, I don't mean "you have to ask" in any code of honor context, but because unless otherwise stated any creation is automatically put under personal copyright law. Therefore the "asking" I was talking about can be seen as an informal attempt of relicensing.


2nd Quote:
I don't know how many of the threads you actually keep track of, but saying that we (as in TRL and me) never explained anything in a calm, clear and technical manner is just wrong and unfair to us.

With 2 minutes of thinking I could post you at least 10 different occurences where najeeb (as prime example) ignored any friendly advice given to him. It's natural that the 100th time the tone will get rougher.

What you described isn't exactly what we refer to with hippie approach anyway. The fact that he still is part of the forums and has as of yet never even been officially warned to stop his trash is the "hippie approach" (and in return, when contributors step up doing it they more often than not get somewhat backstabbed by you, not sure if you even realize it, but you'll take great lengths to explain TRL and myself how you think we're wrong but don't even mention najeeb so "hippie" refers to the lack of moderation).

It's been at least 5 times that he's actively taken part in plundering booty by encouraging people to download Half Life or has openly opposed contributors or even team members who demanded that plundering booty talk be stopped (among a lot of other things which deserved someone with authority stepping in).

You're running a website, it's your duty to make sure it complies with (inter)national law, regardless of you agreement with it and not even that is done on your side in a direct and clear way. The stickies don't include any mention of that and I have yet to see a clear statement addressed to every forum member that illegal content regardless of origin is prohibited.


3rd Quote:
That's a very one-sided point of view in my honest opinion. I can see where you're coming from and I'm at least as big an advocate for opensource software as you are.

I do however think that the very foundation of a free world and democracy is the right of self-determination (hope that's the right word). The decision who and how someone may use your property should be your own and others should have to comply with that.

Additionally I don't think they fail to take into account what you say. A game costs ~$1,000,000 in development nowadays, the only reason they sell it for $60 instead of $1,000,000 is because they KNOW that it can be duplicated, it's already part of the price! Actually they even have to make it more expensive because 25% of people will get it by illegal means or resale.

On top of that being a game developer is one of the hardest jobs in the world, they're working at least as much as anyone else who creates "physical matter" and in reality they work even more due to crunch-time and a large part of game developers suffers from burn-out syndrome at the age of 30.

All that with in many cases (comparatively) horrible payment. They deserve their money at least as much as everyone else.

Now let's delve a bit deeper into "your logic".

I'm really curious, how you think it should work.

Opensource software is in a sense not "free" either, it always builds upon a foundation that has strong financial support with a lot of Linux, GNOME and Firefox developers getting paid.

Not even ZEQ2 Lite would exist if everything was free. Then Carmack wouldn't have had the time to revolutionize 3D rendering and there wouldn't have been a mod sdk for Bid For Power to start either.

In your case it's thankfully just an opinion that doesn't hurt anyone so I can live with it, in najeebs (and a lot of other people here) case if everyone would share his views the whole software industry would collapse and only a few really "full hobby" projects would survive and probably not even those. An up-to-date Kernel is pretty much improbable to maintain without a few full-time people and full-time will always mean money.


Copyright infringement is still stealing, just in a less direct way. While in the real world you take physical matter away and run off, in this case the physical matter which would be RIGHTFULLY theirs never reaches them, while you still run off with the product.

Monday, June 14, 2010

Mjuksel wrote : TRL, Zeth, void and all others including Nemix..

Something came up to me, this whole hugging mister Fuzzles and moaning in this topic really upsets me..

Everyone has the right to be a uninformed participator (not meant in a bad way!) at modeling/mapping/texturing or even left/right clicking..

Just because one has skills does not mean he has the right to put someone down for him lacking skills at the moment..

Just like I have been making lacking models for Bid For Power (Goku with a mortal kombat style masks and stuff)
does that make me a good guy or whatever?

enough said in my opinion, I wish Nemix the best of luck in finding a good team who are devoted to making a cool new model/map/addon pack for ZEQ2-Lite !

Firstly, I would be criticizing even if I didn't have the slightest skill whatsoever. This is totally beside the point. Besides I'm not even criticizing his skill.

Secondly I don't mind any editing/addon making based on ZEQ2-lite models. Just because an opensource approach is taken here in this community, doesn't mean it gives us the right to go put that approach to use allover the internet and other communities. I know for a fact Earth Special Forces doesn't appreciate their models being taken without permission.

Thirdly, hugging mister Fuzzles??

Monday, June 14, 2010

okay guys I'll let this guy solve this problem...