ZEQ2 Lite

Sunday, June 13, 2010

Your entire set of conclusions about a bot being able to easily predict and outmatch a player are absolutely true -- that is, if you could actually even approximate a player's power level in cgame. I'm not sure by which method you are going to be attempting to do this, but there is simply not enough variable data exposed to cgame to give you even a SLIGHT gauging on their power level. Even if you have the exact damage formulas in place and take a sample hit to try and predict the power level of an opponent, you'll be extremely off in the final estimation since there are 4 levels of power level : current, maximum, fatigue, and health that each play unique roles in different situations and most of which don't even have a vague way of approximations being reached through cgame.

The most a bot could do as far as "efficient" reactions go is limited to that which a player could -- namely layers of experimentation and observations to situational reactions. There is no ideal strategy and sure-fire way to play that results in a 100% success rate all the time. Your play-style has to be dynamic enough to account for major changes on the fly. Yes, some simple bot code could help predict this, but it's certainly not going to give them an edge in many ways without knowledge of values that are unexposed.

As far as your list goes, there are several that are simply not true :

- Your opponent's approximate power level
Discussed already.
- If your opponent's boosting
You only know if they have their aura up, not if they are boosting. There are several actions that trigger the aura in non-boost mode.
- The time it'll be ready
The time an attack will be ready varies based on user input, boosting, and many other factors that are simply not exposed as data to cgame.
- The time it'll travel
Same as above.

As such it's an easy mathematical function to calculate when the attack will impact and if that's enough time to escape the radius by just outrunning it or if a zanzoken would do the job. It can also do a pretty good estimate (much more accurate than a human anyway) on how effective blocking or struggling would be.

It's more than just a matter of always dodging with the right maneuver. Estimations on which action to use depend HIGHLY on the attack and enemies' power level -- both of which are not even close to being guessable.

The second a player respawns it fires an attack at the location where EV_SPAWN occured. Since you yourself think side-stepping isn't a viable strategy, how many people exactly do a zanzoken right the second cgame starts responding to user commands? Cause that'd pretty much be the result of what you said yourself. Razz

Have you actually played ZEQ2-lite yet!? A single attack (no matter how perfectly aimed) means absolutely nothing. You could fire the strongest attack you had at full power the instant I spawned with me having no knowledge of where you were and it would so easily be avoidable or nulled due to the ground/air advantage alone without player input.

My overall rebuttal here isn't that a bot component could be created with the exposure of data in cgame NOR that we shouldn't go for client/server qvm checksums later (we certainly should). It's moreover that trying to make a bot as sophisticated as you are suggesting would take a LOT of time and effort and not be nearly as effective nor have nearly as much of an advantage as you might imagine without having more data available to it.

Sunday, June 13, 2010

tell you what Zeth

why don't you record all that text into sound so that someone pays attention to da posts

Sunday, June 13, 2010

RealDeal wrote : tell you what Zeth

why don't you record all that text into sound so that someone pays attention to the posts

I would laugh like heck if he has a very high and pitchy voice :p

Sunday, June 13, 2010

Are you even interested in this discussion? Your lack of imagination here is really surprising. :/


"The time it'll travel" can even be calculated by taking the beam heads origin of two different frames, subtracting them while keeping track of the time. There's no need for any specific information.

Even if speed changes mid-air it takes just one additional frame to recalculate it and adjust the decision not to mention that it'd require quite the distance to really invalidate the initial decision made by the bot.


Boosting:
First off, you do realize that PW_BOOST like every other powerup is communicated to every client, right?

Additionally, getting back to the Aura, EF_AURA is only triggered by 4 different events that can be easily distinguished based on the character's animation. Boost is the only event triggering EF_AURA that doesn#t also forcefully overwrite the current animation with the powerup one.

Sunday, June 13, 2010

sadly all the 2000+ members are interested in this

but thanks to the posts made people run like da wind from here

and I am not saying don't do it

Sunday, June 13, 2010

well real deal seems that you are not interested if you don't want to read

You should be thankful that they even are discussing about this in public so that other people can see how things work. Second of all they write in a way that's acceptable by human eye (sentences in line, everything written in parts....). Even if you don't want to read everything at least read something if you are "interested" as you say

What would you say when you would saw void's post like this :

Are you even interested in this discussion? Your lack of imagination here is really surprising. :/ "The time it'll travel" can even be calculated by taking the beam heads origin of two different frames, subtracting them while keeping track of the time. There's no need for any specific information. Even if speed changes mid-air it takes just one additional frame to recalculate it and adjust the decision not to mention that it'd require quite the distance to really invalidate the initial decision made by the bot.Boosting:First off, you do realize that PW_BOOST like every other powerup is communicated to every client, right? Additionally, getting back to the Aura, EF_AURA is only triggered by 4 different events that can be easily distinguished based on the character's animation. Boost is the only event triggering EF_AURA that doesn#t also forcefully overwrite the current animation with the powerup one.

Sunday, June 13, 2010

First off, you do realize that PW_BOOST like every other powerup is communicated to every client, right?

That's ... strange to say the least. I'd removed the powerups int from player/entityState entirely at one point and replaced it with an alternate structuring of the variables (especially what was sent to the entity state). I suppose you are right in this case though -- boost state certainly could be accurately spotted in the public build.

Sunday, June 13, 2010

dude I said continue with it

if I wasn't interested you wouldn't be seeing me here

Sunday, July 04, 2010

how in the heck is that a hack, it comes with the game, I think being able to freely power down or power up your character or edit it at will is a good quality, it just like adding z items, I mean seriously, who wants to turn Super Saiyan 3, and still get the trash kicked out of you by Raditz? I mean really, it gets boring after while, not being able to edit anything, to be honest, this is actually a great thing to have, I mean modding your add-don tier seems a-bit more respectable then editing your base, I mean, you lose the element of surprise by hiding your power, and the joy of moving a-bit faster, and be honest, not only do the characters move quite slow already, but Goku lacks instant transmission, this is a good way to mess with parameters on fighters, I mean this is something no Dragon Ball Z game has, besides Earth Special Forces has a command prompt to change also. (using steam of course)
but it's not as versitile as this, making this game with such a wide variety of possibilities, is a great thing, and will keep interests aroused, plus people will like being able to "get comfortable" with the parameters of their characters, it provides a "dragon-ball Z"listic feel, so, there for, never in the first place was this a "HACK" I think rather that this a cry for attention, why not use it yourself? heck I tried it (reset them of course, and edit them constantly) and besides, how would the "April Fools" mod be born without it??? the guy would'nt be able to calibrate the parameters he wants without having to pain-stakenly do it himself by recoding the game. not a "HACK"nor "CHEATING" it definitely doesn't count because ONE:it comes with the game free to edit..TWO:he simply found this skill editing before YOU, and others have also, it's not like he has something YOU don't, like modifications *laughing out loud*, you had it all along, besides, no one can cross server without having the same mods at the same time (which is a PAIN IN THE ARSE)
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Sunday, July 04, 2010

DBZFAN wrote : how in the heck is that a hack, it comes with the game, I think being able to freely power down or power up your character or edit it at will is a good quality, it just like adding z items, I mean seriously, who wants to turn Super Saiyan 3, and still get the trash kick out of you by Raditz? I mean really, it gets boring after while, not being able to edit anything, to be honest, this is atcually a great thing to have, I mean modding your addon tier seems abit more respectable then editing your base, I mean, you lose the element of surprise by hideing your power, and the joy of moving a-bit faster, and be honest, not only do the characters move quite slow already, but Goku lacks instant transmission, this is a good way to mess with parameters onn fighters, I mean this is something no Dragon Ball Z game has, besides Earth Special Forces has a command prompt to change also. (using steam of course)
but it's not as versitile as this, making this game with such a wide variety of possiblities, is a great thing, and will keep interests aroused, plus people will like being able to "get comfortable" with the parameters of their characters, it provides a "dragon-ball Z"listic feel, so, there for, never in the first place was this a "HACK" I think rather that this a cry for attention, why not use it yourself? heck I tried it (reset them of course, and edit them constantly) and besides, how would the "April Fools" mod be born without it??? the guy would'nt be able to calibrate the parameters he wants without having to pain-stakenly do it himself by recoding the game. not a "HACK"nor "CHEATING" it definitely doesn't count because ONE:it comes with the game free to edit..TWO:he simply found this skill editing before YOU, and others have also, it's not like he has something YOU don't, like modifications *laughing out loud*, you had it all along, besides, no one can cross server without having the same mods at the same time (which is a PAIN IN THE ARSE)
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what was your age again?:p

Sunday, July 04, 2010

32

Monday, July 05, 2010

what was your age again?:p

I'm 17, how can you ask "again" if it was not given nor specified in the information above. What a incompetent lack of awareness..not to insult you. but I was hoping a reply to my post on this thread would be be given with purpose and credibility hence forth this situation calls for my picture more so

<----observe

Monday, July 05, 2010

DBZFAN wrote :

what was your age again?:p

I'm 17, how can you ask "again" if it was not given nor specified in the information above. What a incompetent lack of awareness..not to insult you. but I was hoping a reply to my post on this thread would be be given with purpose and credibility

I said "Again" cause I once asked it to dbzfan13, and he said 13. That's why I was surprised by your post cause it sounds so mature, But now I see that I was mistaken by the names. Dbzfan and Dbzfan13 is easy to mix up if you don't pay attention :p