ZEQ2 Lite

Friday, May 04, 2012

This is a forum port of a comment debate found here. Please use this thread for additional comments on the discussion at hand.

Ian Lacerda wrote : I wish to know if that expenses include the SVN tree ? 190 bucks for a simple site, why don’t migrate to a cheaper host or a VPS ?

I would donate if the updates on game were more often and the project more open to community. The forums are very beautimus and the fonts too small, I really don’t see engagement from community on main ZEQ2, only on separate mods. I don’t think it’s worth to finance such a poor feedback that you are giving to community.

Ian Lacerda wrote : If this project is really open, why don’t you open the source code for community ? Why we can’t contribute with ZEQ2 programming it ? I’m still not seeing worth contributing to it.

Xonotic and others games like Warsow could be an example to yourselves.

Ian Lacerda wrote : Sorry for my ignorance. Disregard my last post. Nevertheless, the source could be more visible.

Ian Lacerda wrote : I would recommend more wide forums with more visible fonts, more acessible informations for the players like any other community driven game project like Xonotic, Warsow and Urban Terror. Possibly a wiki and automated bug report system.

A bit of championships and game leagues. I know that this game is still on alpha stage, but you have a very large community that needs to be feed with information and interaction.

Bhaskara wrote : I also think this forum needs more interaction. You also need a webdesigner, because this forum is really beautimus. ZEQ2 project is 3 or 4 years old (I think) and we don’t see progress on it. And not all people are interested about programming, most of them just want to play and to have fun. This game shouldn’t have been published, if its goal isn’t interaction.

Le_steck wrote : I understand and for you progress and go on the web site, I donate. thanks you

Lowcust wrote : Why we need to finance a dead project? No real development is being made since rev 1536. Do not waste your time here. If you want a serious project with good people engaged, donate your money to Earth Special Forces.

anon wrote : @Lowcust
first of all this is not a dead project
2nd if you notice 1536 is a stable revision while 1732 is the development ( or intended for developers) revision
so you can't say project is dead

Sony wrote : A game that has no update for over two months regarding the status of the game is a dead project.

Sony wrote : I see no sense about asking for donations for something that is not a game.

The site has no information, its design is pretty bad and no one really knows who are the developers of the project.

Everything would be well if details of the project was publicized and understood, not everyone has time to be entering into technical subjects about this project.

You better show your goals, improvements, publish who is inside this project, what is being made about it and even make a schedule if possible. Those are what a good project is.

Lowcust wrote : @Anon

The fact that the actual revisions are intended to development doesn’t show us better performance like ANY OTHER open source project do.

The only thing done in these new revisions were screw with the rev. 1536.

Now someone will say: “But the developers removed some things in these news revisions, because it’s only for testing,o are they had to do it to test new things”. – That’s old talk and no excuse.

If you have a stable build, try to get it better with the next ones. ALL OTHER OPEN-SOURCE PROJECTS DO IT.

But instead of that, what has been made?
NO real coding – and I mean, nothing related to the actual stable revision has been fixed or improved.

And if the actual purpose of the developers in this project is only test new things while you doesn’t have a good build. Keep these new revisions away from the massive public. Make it only for the developers. Do not show us any kind of developping that can’t implement the stable revision or your open-source project will lost credibility.

People need to see what is being done.

I’m not a blind man to spend my money in a open-source project that doesn’t have any real goals or show to the public some kind of Real Results.

That’s why, in my thoughts, this is a dead project and I won’t spend a single penny with you guys.

Lowcust wrote :
I see you are not very clever, and keep saying the same things in all posts…

First of all. NO, I’m not trying to persuade anyone. I was only showing MY OPINION and giving you some good advices. If you got tinkled off about it, I’m Sorry! But sometimes the truth is hard to face.

No schedules, no goals, and only excuses for lazy people – “If you feel something should be done, YOU are the one self responsible for making it happen” -, That’s why your project is a total disaster…

Look at me as a good friend who is trying to open your eyes…you certainly doesn’t have any business spirit…

And just because I’m not in IRC/SVN nor Forums, my opinion is not relevant? That’s not a mature answer… learn to respect other people opinion, even if the critic isn’t good.

Just because I showed you relevant points who need to be changed, and why I will not spent my money, you freaked out FOR NO REASON.

An explosive guy like you should not be helding this project….that’s a shame.

Ian Lacerda wrote : Agreed, and if is it a open source project I suggest to fork it. If someone think it’s time to fork it I will support.

Lowcust wrote : There you go:
“(…)
Again, you are venting complaints about a hierarchy that doesn’t exist. There is no one in charge, no one’s mind to change, and no one one to direct your disagreements to. I’m not the person you need to convince. My present involvement is this project’s development is non-existent.
(…)”.

Like I said from the very beginning…Dead Project…

You just assumed that.

So, I’m assuming at least I wasn’t misunderstood, like you kept saying, disregards my “ignorance” about the subject.

Thank you so much for finally agree with me in that point.

And then, we are back to ZERO = DISASTER.

“(…)
If you truly believe these things need to change, you should take it upon yourself to MAKE such changes/forks yourself or convince portions of the community to do so. Try the forums..”.

Sorry, but you are totally lacking in that point. Assuming we have a dead project, like you just confirmed, it isn’t my obligation to support it. Read my previous posts and you will see my point.

You seemed very worried to try to explain why you guys need money – instead of keep 1 dollar/month to pay for it.

So I presume you are the idealizer of the project itself. (Don’t say you are not, cause it will be embarrasing for both of us – Internet is our big house – and I know how to read).

Fork this project is the better thing to do now. Try it.

MDave wrote :
The project isn’t dead. Just a few months ago, I (MDave) recoded the camera system from scratch. Made it more powerful and user customizable.

http://forums.ZEQ2.com/lite/viewtopic.php?t=5526

And before that, there has been lots of other changes to the code. We have someone working on mêlée and lock on code, not an internal member of a team or anything, just someone from the community who stepped up and wants to help out.

We have also been experimenting with skeletal model formats too, and we have had some help getting a lot of our content, mainly characters, converted over to use the new format.

We have GLSL shader support getting worked in too.

Just because we don’t have daily progress to report, doesn’t mean it isn’t happening

The only thing the donations are for, as for hosting of the site/forums and SVN. Not to seek a profit at all. It’s a self sustaining project, and that's the way its worked for a long time. All we do is bring this all together for everyone to access. And literally everything about ZEQ2Lite is accessible, it couldn’t be a more open project.

Lowcust wrote : I am following the upgrades and none is related the to the actual stable revision. Please read my second post. I’m tired of exposing my opinion for you guys…seriously.

It is a dead project. The idealizer of it just assumed that earlier. So, please, stop saying it's not, cause its embarrasing you even more.

The camera mode you talked about it’s not “from the scratch”. It’s a mod from Bid For Power. Plus. The original camera was waaaaaaaaaaay better than this one. It has A LOT of bugs. If you continuous use block, the camera locks and you are not capable to get a 360º view – which is the center point of this “new camera” you are talking.

Even the upgrades in the lock-on system are totally embarrasing. Who will lost the lock-on mode when you are behind a rock or something like that, if you don’t have power level equal to 1? – which is more like hiding yourself. You guys are totally missing the details.

Also the animations done to transform into Super Saiyan are way out of hand. Seriously, “3 hours” to transform into a Super Saiyan EVERY TIME you reborn? Come on….Someone will probably shoot me in the back when I’m transforming and I will be dead again.

Like I said a million times. Instead of trying to renew ALL the things done. Try to improve it, fix bugs and etc.

Just read my second post, okay?

You guys are not giving Any credibility for this project to grow up…one of you say it's not a self sustaining project, the other, just now, say it is.

I’m really tired…Dead project at all.

Saturday, May 05, 2012

Like I said from the very beginning…Dead Project…

Lack of original creator involvement does not entail this logic. The project was SPECIFICALLY made to be released and community maintained. That goal has and continues to succeed. The problem is that your perception and view of this situation is fixed. You assume ZEQ2-lite follows the exact same development principles (or some kind of standard) as other open-source projects. That's not the case. This project was released with very specific goals in mind by its creators; goals which have far been surpassed.

You just assumed that.

So, I’m assuming at least I wasn’t misunderstood, like you kept saying, disregards my “ignorance” about the subject.

Thank you so much for finally agree with me in that point.

And then, we are back to ZERO = DISASTER.

I do not follow your indirect logic chain, but if you merely trying to exasperate the situation for the sake of it, it doesn't help anyone's cause. You do sound somewhat agitated and I must apologize if you took my comments as offensive in any way. That was not my intention.

Sorry, but you are totally lacking in that point. Assuming we have a dead project, like you just confirmed, it isn’t my obligation to support it. Read my previous posts and you will see my point.

I do not understand where such a confirmation was attained nor what point is "lacking". I am not asking you personally to support the project. Your previous posts have all been very directly rebutted in my posts. Please explain (in a list if you can) what your primary points are so that I may address them in an itemized fashion.

You seemed very worried to try to explain why you guys need money – instead of keep 1 dollar/month to pay for it.

This has been addressed multiple times already. Nobody "needs" money. The project's website/forums/svn are hosted on various web servers. This does not HAVE to persist and Dave/myself have no real desire/need to do so. If the community wants it to continue to be, they are free to sustain it. That is all the donation drive is about. Nothing more. Nothing less. It has ZERO relativity to development or progress on the core files.

So I presume you are the idealizer of the project itself. (Don’t say you are not, cause it will be embarrasing for both of us – Internet is our big house – and I know how to read).

I don't understand what you mean by "idealizer". I was one of the original creators of ZEQ2, yes. MDave and I were the two that branched the Quake 3 (2005) version into ZEQ2-lite and exposed it's source/assets along with some cleaning and such.

Fork this project is the better thing to do now. Try it.

Please explain what you mean by "forking" the project. The source can already be obtained and branched in any manner possible to any number of projects. There have been Naruto and Pokemon variations that have used the core source code to do this. What exactly do you want to be achieved by a primary code fork? Multiple revisions already exist, after all.

I am following the upgrades and none is related the to the actual stable revision. Please read my second post. I’m tired of exposing my opinion for you guys…seriously.

All revision changes don't have to relate to the stable revision. The goal isn't to make a playable game, remember? That may be YOUR goal, but that's not the project goal. A playable/stable interactive experience is merely a byproduct of varying levels of involvement.

It is a dead project. The idealizer of it just assumed that earlier. So, please, stop saying it's not, cause its embarrasing you even more.

No one is embarrassed by the present state of events and I certainly would like to hear more from what you have to say. Now that we're on the forums, perhaps you can explain this more clearly in a manner I can understand.

The camera mode you talked about it’s not “from the scratch”. It’s a mod from Bid For Power. Plus. The original camera was waaaaaaaaaaay better than this one. It has A LOT of bugs. If you continuous use block, the camera locks and you are not capable to get a 360º view – which is the center point of this “new camera” you are talking.

The tag-based camera Dave wrote is not from Bid For Power. No source code is from Bid For Power as their code was never exposed. Every mechanical system and sub-system was written from scratch. The original camera was not better from a design standpoint. The current code is now about 50% as large and much more organized/usable to build from. Again, you assume the goal is stability and usability, but the SVN's code purpose is NOT for those goals.

It's about the implementation of best-case practices and goals over all else. That includes implementing systems and working on them over time. A revision does NOT mean the system is finished or ready for usage. There are many systems that have been revised (and are continuing to be) in this manner.

Even the upgrades in the lock-on system are totally embarrasing. Who will lost the lock-on mode when you are behind a rock or something like that, if you don’t have power level equal to 1? – which is more like hiding yourself. You guys are totally missing the details.

Again, these systems were never finished. There's no point in critiquing the design unless you actually understand what the END-GOALS are for it. Otherwise, you're just yelling at a carpenter for a crappy house when he's only half-way done building it.

Also the animations done to transform into Super Saiyan are way out of hand. Seriously, “3 hours” to transform into a Super Saiyan EVERY TIME you reborn? Come on….Someone will probably shoot me in the back when I’m transforming and I will be dead again.

That's not an animation. That's a timer and it's very easy adjust with the config system. Any latest-iteration forms are likely extended for testing other systems and once more do not relate to the actual intended result. There are unfinished systems for handling transformations as well.

Like I said a million times. Instead of trying to renew ALL the things done. Try to improve it, fix bugs and etc.

To improve, one must revise what exists. Most of the original codework was built upon a flat Quake 3 existence and merely "hacked" in to functioning. The fact that the coders of ZEQ2-lite these days are actually spending time with a degree of foresight in planning the sub-systems is a HUGE step forward in terms of code extendability and usability.

You guys are not giving Any credibility for this project to grow up…one of you say it's not a self sustaining project, the other, just now, say it is.

There is no conflicting view. Dave merely has stated that he participated in involvement recently. It's VERY obvious that no centralized development team exists. Look back at the ZEQ2 project in comparison. It had weekly meetings, updates, comprehensive design/technical threads -- essentially organization/structure. The entire point of a "lite" version was to remove such structure in lieu of a degree of openness.

Saturday, May 05, 2012

If I'm honest, some of their points are right, but you're also right at your points.

But, if I read clearly: You're saying that it's NOT a Game, which is wrong for my part.

So this means it is a Open-Sourced Sandbox Game, why? Because of a few reasons:

- Sandbox Games are never ending (which happens in ZEQ2 since no one ever wins the game)
- You can do whatever you want in ZEQ2, which is exactly how a Sandbox Game goes. You can kill anyone in Multiplayer/Singleplayer (bots) in any way you want (free roaming)
- It's a PLAYABLE Sandbox field, which means it's a game. If it wasn't playable, it wouldn't be a game at all. You said the goal isn't about making this into a playable state, but as far as I can tell it actually is in a playable state.

Sure, it's a Project, but it will always be a game no matter what (Until you can't play around with it anymore).

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think I made some points right there.

Saturday, May 05, 2012

indeed you have

and that's true, Zeth acts like this isn't even game, like its something that he doesn't care about but works on it -_-

Saturday, May 05, 2012

The forums aren't beautimus,I would say it is one of the more cleaner forums of the internet

@Zeth
I doubt they will come to the forums to talk about this
it would be nice to have a google/facebook/twitter account login so that accounts can be made in seconds

Saturday, May 05, 2012

RealDeal wrote : The forums aren't beautimus,I would say it is one of the more cleaner forums of the internet

@Zeth
I doubt they will come to the forums to talk about this
it would be nice to have a google/facebook/twitter account login so that accounts can be made in seconds

agreed

Saturday, May 05, 2012

BlackHawkGT, a sandbox game isn't a game unless it has a scoring system, and cannot be a game if it isn't in a playable state. Too many bugs prevent the game from being completely enjoyable. Also, games need objectives, and those objectives are determined by the coding, not your imagination.

And to those blog-posters, how can we possibly update a revision that cannot apply fixes through the SVN? We are at a revision almost 300 changes away from Revision 1536. In a way, we ARE making changes related to the "stable revision." We are improving it and making it more playable in a later revision.

If you truly want to make changes to the stable revision, it's open-sourced, so you can do it yourself and release it. This chance, one that you are refusing to take, makes it dead to you only because you have no true desire to see it get anywhere.

No one ever said there was a team. And if it is open-sourced, it can never die, because even 50 years from now, another Steve Jobs-type dedicated developer will come by and overhaul it into a commercial game far more successful than any Dragon Ball Z game you may have seen in the past.

He can easily access these assets if the SVN is still in existence. If the site goes down, we'd be smart to have a complete backup of the SVN on GoogleSVN or something, but it is much easier to manage here, I would assume. If this site does not earn enough funds, then the SVN will be lost, THEN the project will be dead.

So either you wish it to die, or you didn't even care for this project in the first place and are just being a pessimistic twerp.

GoldenWarrior wrote : indeed you have

and that's true, Zeth acts like this isn't even game, like its something that he doesn't care about but works on it -_-

He doesn't work on it, he just gives info on what needs to be done to make progress on it, and in essence on our own developmental skills.

Saturday, May 05, 2012

Linkxp500 wrote : BlackHawkGT, a sandbox game isn't a game unless it has a scoring system, and cannot be a game if it isn't in a playable state. Too many bugs prevent the game from being completely enjoyable

So Minecraft Classic and a couple of other Sandbox Games aren't games either? So I guess EVERY Sandbox Game which doesn't have a scoring system isn't a game either. The Minecraft Beta was a game (because Minecraft is out of Beta), but did not have a scoring system. Does this mean it isn't a game either?
It doesn't even matter if there are no objectives, cause you can make your OWN ones.

In other words, ZEQ2 IS a Sandbox GAME cause you can do WHATEVER you want in it. ZEQ2 is also PLAYABLE (in my eyes) right now with the current stable version, so either I am wrong again or you are wrong.

Saturday, May 05, 2012

In my opinion, ZEQ2-Lite is a sandbox GAME.Why? If it is a sandbox only and not a game, then we have a box full of sand. It is classified as a game, because it is playable software. Buggy or not, this GAME is PLAYABLE. Many sandbox games do not have any kind of objective, yet they are games.You can't say Terraria and Minecraft aren't games, and while they have bosses, they don't have real objectives. Now please stop pretending this is just a project-this is a game in development. Zeth might try changing the concepts of gaming and sandboxes, but he cannot. NOBODY can. Get used to it.

Saturday, May 05, 2012

What are you guys female dogging about? It's just not up to the standards (set by the original creator, Zeth) yet to be worthy of being called a game. It will be eventually.

Saturday, May 05, 2012

If I'm honest, some of their points are right, but you're also right at your points.

Given ZEQ2-lite intentions and goals upon creation, which points do you feel of his are right?

But, if I read clearly: You're saying that it's NOT a Game, which is wrong for my part.

Being a sandbox does not qualify it as a game. Refer to my explained distinctions on the subject here.

I doubt they will come to the forums to talk about this
it would be nice to have a google/facebook/twitter account login so that accounts can be made in seconds

That would also be an open invitation for a range of bots and large amounts of users to funnel. Excessive accessibility comes with a cost.

and that's true, Zeth acts like this isn't even game, like its something that he doesn't care about but works on it -_-

I have plenty of projects that I have worked on that I do value quite a bit. ZEQ2-lite is not a state where I consider it reflective of the design goals set forth by it's predecessor ZEQ2 -- granted it was not intended to be when it released. My point is that it's not something I intended to work on and invest in as much as to utilize as a tool for helping others learn the ropes of game development.

Saturday, May 05, 2012

Speaking about projects What is this? "secret project" you're working on with the others?

Saturday, May 05, 2012

Zeth wrote :

If I'm honest, some of their points are right, but you're also right at your points.

Given ZEQ2-lite intentions and goals upon creation, which points do you feel of his are right?

Ian Lacerda wrote : Possibly a wiki

One of the things that may help bringing people into the project (maybe give some information about the sourcecode itself, like what does what? Just my opinion though).

Sony wrote : Everything would be well if details of the project was publicized and understood, not everyone has time to be entering into technical subjects about this project.

If people want to contribute about something, let them know what they're up against. Doesn't matter what, make like a extra tab (or make a thread about it, I'm not sure if it's already there but I'm too lazy to search for it :V)

Zeth wrote : Being a sandbox does not qualify it as a game. Refer to my explained distinctions on the subject here.

Hm, you were right. But there's one thing that's bothering me:

Zeth wrote : ZEQ2-lite is merely an 'activity' at this stage and, yes, while activities can be fun/amusing, it does not make them any more definable as "games". Regardless of what the populous/masses may believe in stance to this, without objectives and inner goals, you do NOT have a game.

Even if it may be a Sandbox without Objectives and Inner Goals, it still should be a game. Like Garry's Mod, which Grega said. It even says on the Steam Store page:

Even Minecraft is a Game, but doesn't have any goal or objectives at all.

Anyway. I'm done typing for day, I'm tired and don't wanna continue since I can't really think anymore. I'll probably talk with you tomorrow (Just remember to correct me if I said something horribly wrong, that would be nice :V).

Saturday, May 05, 2012

One of the things that may help bringing people into the project (maybe give some information about the sourcecode itself, like what does what? Just my opinion though).

A wiki could be useful, yes. Are you volunteering to help create and maintain this with up-to-date and organized information?

If people want to contribute about something, let them know what they're up against. Doesn't matter what, make like a extra tab (or make a thread about it, I'm not sure if it's already there but I'm too lazy to search for it :V)

Even the blog defines what this project is to a large degree. The words chosen were very particular (even with a disclaimer) to avoid any level of confusion. The problem is that most people have preconceptions when they look at any project on the internet. They assume it to follow particular practices and strive at conventional goals -- despite what the project may actually be geared towards.

Even if it may be a Sandbox without Objectives and Inner Goals, it still should be a game. Like Garry's Mod, which Grega said. It even says on the Steam Store page:

Enough people believing a single idea does not make it any more or less true. There are very important differences in categorization between a game and an interactive product -- some of which I mentioned in the linked thread.

Author intention has a lot to do with it as well. If the product is intended to serve purely entertainment purposes, one could easily debate that its primary goalset is, indeed, that of a game. There are a multitude of criteria to really analyze and consider before making any kind of bold labeling such as this. People often generalize because it helps them identify by relating to what they already understand. While generalizing may give a user a vague idea, it typically lacks any real depth and can lead to development of false (and often harmful) presumptions.

Even Minecraft is a Game, but doesn't have any goal or objectives at all.

Minecraft may be at a game status now, but on some of its early builds, it lacked any real comprehensive goals/objectives that would define it as such. As I pointed out prior, since the author DID have a mindset towards (inevitably) creating a game, one could argue that it was merely a work-in-progress at that stage and not a project of an entirely different type.

The difference is that the current iteration of ZEQ2-lite very specifically has no such goals. It is not a game at an "alpha" or "beta" state. Development is 100% exposed and community-driven at this point. The project is intended as both a learning aid and platform for eager/creative users to hone their capabilities by creating and extending upon what exists.

Public Beta 1 could arguably be extrinsically classified in another manner by some users, but the status quo simply does not reflect or support any such notions.

Anyway. I'm done typing for day, I'm tired and don't wanna continue since I can't really think anymore. I'll probably talk with you tomorrow (Just remember to correct me if I said something horribly wrong, that would be nice :V).

I want to commend you for organizing your thoughts as clearly as you are while also being open-minded at the end of each post. This is very much appreciated and creates a comfortable atmosphere to carry on a discussion intelligently.

Sunday, May 06, 2012

Hmmm, trying to dodge the question?

Sunday, May 06, 2012

Zeth, I believe people classify ZEQ2-Lite as a game because it is based on a 3D game engine, has ,,weapons"(KI balls) and a multiplayer deathmatch mode. They assume it's Quake Arena with a Dragon Ball Z style, and to a certain extent, they are right.

I understand that you are willing to create an opportunity for people to learn game development, but in this long learning process, they improve the ,,project" you know. And people want improvements, one way or another. Notch updated Minecraft because he wanted the fans to be happy. You update this Project along with others so you can all be better developers. But the fans still get happier in the process you know.

What I'm saying is, you could satisfy the other side with some minimal effort. Showing that you care about the community does not hamper the development in any way in my opinion.

The developers and players could live in peace without disturbing each other, couldn't they?

Sunday, May 06, 2012

Zeth wrote :

One of the things that may help bringing people into the project (maybe give some information about the sourcecode itself, like what does what? Just my opinion though).

A wiki could be useful, yes. Are you volunteering to help create and maintain this with up-to-date and organized information?

Sure, why not. I can make a page of all the commands (without having people to search it on the forums cause you probably know how people are). The only thing I don't really know is the sourcecode itself since I haven't worked with any real programming language yet. :V

And yeah, you're right. You made some real good points there. I more likely thought it was a game, but like you said a "Alpha" or "Beta" can not be a game, which is true (since it's ment for testing and not for actual gaming and stuff).

Sunday, May 06, 2012

There is a wikia, I've made one like two years ago..

Sunday, May 06, 2012

LegendarySS4 wrote : There is a wikia, I've made one like two years ago..

http://ZEQ2.wikia.com/wiki/ZEQ2_Wiki?

Sunday, May 06, 2012

BlackhawkGT wrote : And yeah, you're right. You made some real good points there. I more likely thought it was a game, but like you said a "Alpha" or "Beta" can not be a game, which is true (since it's ment for testing and not for actual gaming and stuff).

Brad said that it isn't an alpha or a beta. It's more like a testing ground. Think of it as a room filled entirely of high-tech simulated objects and terrain. It makes you feel like you are inside that world, and that it looks real.

In the case of ZEQ2-Lite, the world inside the program resembles that of the anime, and everything in there is a simulation that you can improve in the control center that is not visible from inside the simulation. That control center, your tools for creating new content for the simulation program, allows you to change practically everything to suit your preferences.

Basically, just as one could improve their game developmental skills in the testing program ZEQ2-Lite, which gives enough playability to be able to examine all aspects of an addon, the person operating the control center improves his or her ability to create new situations for the people inside the simulation to test their success in such a simulation.

Even if ZEQ2 was meant as a game (which I am not sure about, but assuming it was), ZEQ2-Lite is a severely dumbed down and basic simulator that, with enough testing and contributions, can eventually reach the functionality intended for ZEQ2, and THEN perhaps it can be considered a game.

Besides, how many open projects do you know that allow you to create new content to place in that program with such ease, even if it is a little outdated or primitive. I honestly haven't seen even one more of these kinds of projects, but I have added content to games through the use of third-party software (such as a plugin editor like that for Skyrim, not the more complex and unethical kinds). But those hardly count if you want to learn how to create a game from the very core.

Monday, May 07, 2012

BlackhawkGT wrote :

LegendarySS4 wrote : There is a wikia, I've made one like two years ago..

http://ZEQ2.wikia.com/wiki/ZEQ2_Wiki?

And another one, though I gave up on them.

Wednesday, May 09, 2012

Hmmm, trying to dodge the question?

No, you just did not specify. Are you referring to ZEQ2, Olio, or another project?

Zeth, I believe people classify ZEQ2-Lite as a game because it is based on a 3D game engine, has ,,weapons"(KI balls) and a multiplayer deathmatch mode. They assume it's Quake Arena with a Dragon Ball Z style, and to a certain extent, they are right.

Maszek, using a framework/engine for a project does not automatically qualify your project under the same guidelines. There are plenty of medical aids and training simulation tools using OpenGL/DirectX in use in everyday society. Are you saying these are games also simply because they are using libraries commonly associated with games? Of course not.

ZEQ2, in its humble beginnings, did start initially as just a simple extension of a game framework and was intended originally to be a game. My point is that, over time, those goals adapted and changed to reflect different intentions and, eventually, branched off into the ZEQ2-lite project you see today.

Making any kind of assumption without research or study is precisely the problem that exists with the general populous and their identification methods. It's an issue I touched up on in an earlier post as well if you'll recall.

I understand that you are willing to create an opportunity for people to learn game development, but in this long learning process, they improve the ,,project" you know. And people want improvements, one way or another. Notch updated Minecraft because he wanted the fans to be happy. You update this Project along with others so you can all be better developers. But the fans still get happier in the process you know.

You are still making relationships and parallels that cannot fit together. You simply cannot make a comparison like that using logic. Minecraft INTENDED to be a game and INTENDED to be maintained by a developer (or developers). ZEQ2-lite, did not. It is not a project that aspires towards achieving supporters nor is it one that intended to have any centralized growth whatsoever.

Based on other projects/games you have seen, you assumed ZEQ2-lite would follow their practices and design mentalities, but the fact of the matter is that it simply does not -- and never intended to.

What I'm saying is, you could satisfy the other side with some minimal effort. Showing that you care about the community does not hamper the development in any way in my opinion.

The fact that the project was released (at all) and that there is a forum/blog/website that exists speaks for itself; however, that's really the limitation of involvement intended. I do not mind discussion of technical matters or sharing knowledge with eager individuals, but make no mistake in this matter; I'm much more involved with projects other than ZEQ2-lite and only consider it a loose shadow of its predecessor in terms of current state as well as capability.

The developers and players could live in peace without disturbing each other, couldn't they?

The goal was to make them one and the same. Anyone has the capacity for creation. It's just a matter of applied thinking.

Sure, why not. I can make a page of all the commands (without having people to search it on the forums cause you probably know how people are). The only thing I don't really know is the sourcecode itself since I haven't worked with any real programming language yet. :V

Private message sent.

Wednesday, May 09, 2012

[quote="Zeth"]

Hmmm, trying to dodge the question?

No, you just did not specify. Are you referring to ZEQ2, Olio, or another project?

How am I suppose to know, I've just heard about this secret project you're working on with the others ( Ramanus, Alex, MDave, etc..)

Thursday, May 10, 2012

that's Olio,and it's not secret. :p

Thursday, May 10, 2012

Epic wrote : that's Olio,and it's not secret. :p

This Olio is?