ZEQ2 Lite

Saturday, January 14, 2012

JayREEZY wrote : :*laughing out loud*: :*laughing out loud*:

One-of-a-kind AnTy hehe. Tell em' like it is

Perhaps you could do the honors hmn? You don't have to now if you don't want to, it's not a priority one thing yet. Just consider it. If not, then I'll get started right away.

hahaha, yes, I could, but I'm working in other characters, anyway its a easy work, but... if you can do it... go and do it Jay!!, this is a community, you can always try it... think about it, you want wait always for the other people releases or... you want work in your own characters and never wait for anything because you already make it?...

Saturday, January 14, 2012

Zeth wrote : In fact, I actually AGREED that changes should be done and that many of TRLs suggested changes were very applicable and proper for particular sagas and references. There was no problem in the outcome of his changes. The problem was his design approach and inevitably his attitude.

Okay good, I just wanted you to clarify a little further. I tried to pay attention and listen to as many of you and TRL's posts as possible before I responded.

EDIT: Oh, I did clarify that you agreed with the idea, further in my last post.

Zeth wrote : The comment in question was me playing the role of devil's advocate (taking an opposite perspective to what one may find optimal) in order to illustrate a point about shortcomings on superficial observations. It was not meant to be taken literally or applied in any sense beyond that of a wry, factitious tonality. Judging from many of the responses that immediately followed, I suspect this notion went over many people's heads. Despite that though, I DID almost immediately clarify it several followup posts.

Thanks for responding, I needed some feedback from you directly.

So you're not mad. Alright phew, just checking. It gets hard to tell without smileys though...

Saturday, January 14, 2012

it's a shame because for that person I learn to many stuff about my work with this characters...

All these things you learned from him about shaders and approaches. Who, pray tell, do you think taught him? TRL was but one pupil in a sea of many.

The sensei will always remain.

well... if you continue in this way you will have to work alone Zeth (no, I didn't read everything and I will not read that, to many words...)

Community of not, there will always be Dave and I -- one way or another. We've scratched our way from a 2-man squad to victory in the past with the rebirth of ZEQ2-lite, after all. That said, I do hope that individuals like yourself won't get discouraged in any way. Nothing has changed. I'm still here to assist as always and willing to field any questions you may have.

at the end this will be just another Dragon Ball Z game nothing more nothing less..

That's all it's ever been. Well, less than that since it's just an unfinished sandbox at this stage anyhow.

Saturday, January 14, 2012

Zeth wrote : All these things you learned from him about shaders and approaches. Who, pray tell, do you think taught him? TRL was but one pupil in a sea of many. The sensei will always remain.

hahahahahah!!!! NO, I don't talk about that Zeth, I talk about I learn how edit and use 3ds max for that guy... he push me and I try it just for make him shut the love up, this one was my last try before I learn how use 3ds max:

http://ZEQ2.com/lite/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3021&sid=23a8d3157d2365677a50c967b2384ae7

Community of not, there will always be Dave and I -- one way or another. We've scratched our way from a 2-man squad to victory in the past with the rebirth of ZEQ2-lite, after all. That said, I do hope that individuals like yourself won't get discouraged in any way. Nothing has changed. I'm still here to assist as always and willing to field any questions you may have.

if you can do that why make a community?, you can do it with that other guy right?, well... let me tell you something my friend, if we wait JUST for your work and the work of that guy this page/game could be so boring... I mean the point of the people who work in this is make the other people stay and see the new stuff of the game... you think you can do it alone? okay... but the people leave if the game don't show anything new and this game could be dead long time ago but you know why this is still alive?...

That's all it's ever been. Well, less than that since it's just an unfinished sandbox at this stage anyhow.

well... that can be changed but... who will try that if you act like this?...

Saturday, January 14, 2012

I'd imagine nothing is getting done by having a bunch of people show their e-peens to each other over a video game. I have a grand idea though, how about you all get some beer, get crunk, and shut the front door? Just saying... Move on, revert back to staying busy, or forever argue about pointless subjects.

Saturday, January 14, 2012

That guy is Dave or known as MDave.

Saturday, January 14, 2012

hahahahahah!!!! NO, I don't talk about that Zeth, I talk about I learn how edit and use 3ds max for that guy... he push me and I try it just for make him shut the love up, this one was my last try before I learn how use 3ds max:

I don't doubt that you've learned some modeling tricks from TRL. My point is that you could learn the same (if not more) from someone else with more field experience -- such as Ramunas. TRL isn't the only apple in the orchard.

if you can do that why make a community?, you can do it with that other guy right?, well... let me tell you something my friend, if we wait JUST for your work and the work of that guy this page/game could be so boring... I mean the point of the people who work in this is make the other people stay and see the new stuff of the game... you think you can do it alone?

You misunderstand. What I was saying is that hope will never be lost as long as Dave and I are alive. The game will always progress eventually in some manner over some amount of time as it did in the past during the stagnating years between 2006-2009.

Of course the community is quite important for a much more rapid development and growth of the project. There's no mistaking that. It's the primary reason we opened up all aspects of development this time around.

okay... but the people leave if the game don't show anything new and this game could be dead long time ago but you know why this is still alive?...

The project has existed in many incarnations without a community at all over the course of many years in the past. Make no mistake. While a community is GREAT for increasing rate of development, interest, and general self-esteem/experience/knowledge to a large group of people, it's not essential for the lifeline of this project.

Having a community is certainly better than not, but without one present, the project would still live on through it's open-source nature and occasional maintainers.

well... that can be changed but... who will try that if you act like this?...

Not sure what you mean. If you had read all of the previous posts you would know that TRL was erring here and that I was remaining calm and objective the entire time. My actions are not out of place or non-standard.

Saturday, January 14, 2012

Zeth wrote : my opinion and knowledge about this game

you wrote to much... and I will not read all that stuff, because to be honnest I don't care at all, all I want now is get drunk, and I go for a couple girls hahaha, so... see you later Zeth, anyway later I will put a couple imagens about my work...

Saturday, January 14, 2012

AnTy wrote :

Zeth wrote : my opinion and knowledge about this game

you wrote to much... and I will not read all that stuff, because to be honnest I don't care at all, all I want now is get drunk, and I go for a couple girls hahaha, so... see you later Zeth, anyway later I will put a couple imagens about my work...

I hope you won't fail with that, because nobody wanna see you drunk nakid with 3 girls in the background..

Saturday, January 14, 2012

get drunk?? haha the drunk metalhead the bad boy
(do not go wrong with your mouth when you speak...
is a lack of respect)...
better dance with me...
guys want to know what are the main I thought?
just to clarify things and not lose your mind ..

1 with many cocks singing is never day

2 better work together. or come to destruction ..
and the project will go by too slowly..
if you ever shut this forum, many will cry ..

3 put aside pride .. if you want to get the best results, the best approaches, etc. .. so the work will continue peacefully for all ..

4 love what you do..

Sunday, January 15, 2012

AnTy wrote :

Zeth wrote : All these things you learned from him about shaders and approaches. Who, pray tell, do you think taught him? TRL was but one pupil in a sea of many. The sensei will always remain.

hahahahahah!!!! NO, I don't talk about that Zeth, I talk about I learn how edit and use 3ds max for that guy... he push me and I try it just for make him shut the love up, this one was my last try before I learn how use 3ds max:

http://ZEQ2.com/lite/forums/viewtopic.php?t=3021&sid=23a8d3157d2365677a50c967b2384ae7

Community of not, there will always be Dave and I -- one way or another. We've scratched our way from a 2-man squad to victory in the past with the rebirth of ZEQ2-lite, after all. That said, I do hope that individuals like yourself won't get discouraged in any way. Nothing has changed. I'm still here to assist as always and willing to field any questions you may have.

if you can do that why make a community?, you can do it with that other guy right?, well... let me tell you something my friend, if we wait JUST for your work and the work of that guy this page/game could be so boring... I mean the point of the people who work in this is make the other people stay and see the new stuff of the game... you think you can do it alone? okay... but the people leave if the game don't show anything new and this game could be dead long time ago but you know why this is still alive?...

That's all it's ever been. Well, less than that since it's just an unfinished sandbox at this stage anyhow.

well... that can be changed but... who will try that if you act like this?...

Anty how you do this effect and shining for Goku body change?

NELLO!! wrote : get drunk?? haha the drunk metalhead :*laughing out loud*: the bad boy :*laughing out loud*:
(do not go wrong with your mouth when you speak...
is a lack of respect)...
better dance with me...
guys want to know what are the main I thought?
just to clarify things and not lose your mind ..

1 with many cocks singing is never day

2 better work together. or come to destruction ..
and the project will go by too slowly..
if you ever shut this forum, many will cry ..

3 put aside pride .. if you want to get the best results, the best approaches, etc. .. so the work will continue peacefully for all ..

4 love what you do..

good words

Sunday, January 15, 2012

I'll stick around for a few more days to see if Brad changes his decision.

Sunday, January 15, 2012

No offense but you some of you guys are being extremely ignorant. There is no reason to get mad. What Brad is saying is that, TRL stepped out of place one too many times and this isn't the first time that this has happened. He will be missed and probably be back anyways. He and Majin Dave will be here to assist us regardless of who leaves. That and he wasn't the most productive,hardest,working best editor. He was a contributor like us that has just been here a long time.

I think he took advantage of the fact that he has history with the team and took it upon himself to act of higher power. I could be wrong but that's what I am getting from this.

Sunday, January 15, 2012

Well its sad we lost such a good artist ...but we must move on because there is no point in arguing with Zeth .

Sunday, January 15, 2012

Well its sad we lost such a good artist ...but we must move on because there is no point in arguing with Zeth.

Perfectly fine to argue with me, but you have to remember to do it in a civil and level-headed manner without resorting to petty name-calling and illogical or unsubstantiated claims. A good debate/argument is how change occurs and thus how we move forward.

No offense but you some of you guys are being extremely ignorant. There is no reason to get mad. What Brad is saying is that, TRL stepped out of place one too many times and this isn't the first time that this has happened. He will be missed and probably be back anyways. He and Majin Dave will be here to assist us regardless of who leaves. That and he wasn't the most productive,hardest,working best editor. He was a contributor like us that has just been here a long time.

I think he took advantage of the fact that he has history with the team and took it upon himself to act of higher power. I could be wrong but that's what I am getting from this.

That's pretty much exactly spot on.

Sunday, January 15, 2012

Zeth wrote :

Well its sad we lost such a good artist ...but we must move on because there is no point in arguing with Zeth.

Perfectly fine to argue with me, but you have to remember to do it in a civil and level-headed manner without resorting to petty name-calling and illogical or unsubstantiated claims. A good debate/argument is how change occurs and thus how we move forward.

Well I will only say its shame that TRL got released,but that SSj8gogeta guy is still here,after all insults spamming and all he done,don't need to even discuss who contributed more.

Sunday, January 15, 2012

Well I will only say its shame that TRL got released,but that SSj8gogeta guy is still here,after all insults spamming and all he done.

Many people in this community are simply too young/inexperienced, lack the language skills, or generally don't know better. Not only that, but their scope of influence and goals are radically different than that of his.

TRL was gauged on a much different scale in this case.

He was stepping up to challenge the current standards and flow of development of SVN characters. Don't misunderstand. While this in itself is perfectly fine (and encouraged), it's important to realize that he was treading in a whole different field of play where etiquette was essential and consequences were a lot more dire.

His approach was flawed from the beginning as he did not bring up a discussion of any kind. No design document or proposal (of any sort) was submitted. No proper channels were gone through whatsoever. Regardless of these immediate transgressions, response was given addressing his very obvious lack of detailing and explanation into the design process. Key points were made detailing how his methods were both backwards/lesser in terms of historical experiences and in terms of thoroughness. As everyone here knows, his response to these counter-points were largely ignored and instead he chose to lash out in a blunt, simplistic manner.

----

If you still don't understand, try to imagine this in a (loosely) relative manner.

Think of ZEQ2-lite (the core project) like Congress or any governing body. There are many internal methods and procedures that ZEQ2-lite follows in order to manage its own processes, but largely the people/community involved can still freely do what they wish under it.

Now lets imagine that we have an individual like TRL who contributes to this ideal. He helps others out and tries to create new things with his own way of doing things -- although through sometimes questionable approaches. Much like any club/organization/group (contributors/pack developers), having his own sub-management methods and attitudes are perfectly fine here.

One day, TRL decides that he doesn't like how the Congress is running things in some way with its internal approaches. Congress is an open system though so this is equally acceptable to question. If someone has better methods than its own, it'll hear out new proposals. TRL takes his case to the Supreme Court. The field of play has changed. Rather than be formal and proper in his presentation of new changes, TRL instead chooses to use his old bag of tricks with slander and blunt ignorance of presented facts. This is not proper behavior.

Do you think the Supreme Court would be all peachy with TRL's outburst and out-of-line actions? Probably not. Do you think kicking him out and/or issuing some jail time would be a possibility? Definitely.

To clarify once more before people get whipped into an uproar, this isn't meant to be a directly applied analogy (ZEQ2-lite isn't some governing body in any sense), but I did want to try and use a relative system to help you understand the concept of differences in scope. If you don't like the concept of lobbyists/legal structure, you can easily swap out keywords and do a comparison between whatever you like.

Once again, NOT to be taken LITERALLY.

Sunday, January 15, 2012

Zeth wrote :

Well I will only say its shame that TRL got released,but that SSj8gogeta guy is still here,after all insults spamming and all he done.

Many people in this community are simply too young/inexperienced, lack the language skills, or generally don't know better. Not only that, but their scope of influence and goals are radically different than that of his.

TRL was gauged on a much different scale in this case.

He was stepping up to challenge the current standards and flow of development of SVN characters. Don't misunderstand. While this in itself is perfectly fine (and encouraged), it's important to realize that he was treading in a whole different field of play where etiquette was essential and consequences were a lot more dire.

His approach was flawed from the beginning as he did not bring up a discussion of any kind. No design document or proposal (of any sort) was submitted. No proper channels were gone through whatsoever. Regardless of these immediate transgressions, response was given addressing his very obvious lack of detailing and explanation into the design process. Key points were made detailing how his methods were both backwards/lesser in terms of historical experiences and in terms of thoroughness. As everyone here knows, his response to these counter-points were largely ignored and instead he chose to lash out in a blunt, simplistic manner.

----

If you still don't understand, try to imagine this in a (loosely) relative manner.

Think of ZEQ2-lite (the core project) like Congress or any governing body. There are many internal methods and procedures that ZEQ2-lite follows in order to manage its own processes, but largely the people/community involved can still freely do what they wish under it.

Now lets imagine that we have an individual like TRL who contributes to this ideal. He helps others out and tries to create new things with his own way of doing things -- although through sometimes questionable approaches. Much like any club/organization/group (contributors/pack developers), having his own sub-management methods and attitudes are perfectly fine here.

One day, TRL decides that he doesn't like how the Congress is running things in some way with its internal approaches. Congress is an open system though so this is equally acceptable to question. If someone has better methods than its own, it'll hear out new proposals. TRL takes his case to the Supreme Court. The field of play has changed. Rather than be formal and proper in his presentation of new changes, TRL instead chooses to use his old bag of tricks with slander and blunt ignorance of presented facts. This is not proper behavior.

Do you think the Supreme Court would be all peachy with TRL's outburst and out-of-line actions? Probably not. Do you think kicking him out and/or issuing some jail time would be a possibility? Definitely.

To clarify once more before people get whipped into an uproar, this isn't meant to be a directly applied analogy (ZEQ2-lite isn't some governing body in any sense), but I did want to try and use a relative system to help you understand the concept of differences in scope. If you don't like the concept of lobbyists/legal structure, you can easily swap out keywords and do a comparison between whatever you like.

Once again, NOT to be taken LITERALLY.

This is where I step up, even with knowing the result will most likely once again be most disastrous for me or anyone who would argument with you.

I wouldn't have any problem with that entire post you just wrote, if it wasn't for the fact that you aren't threatening everyone the same. If that is your rational and logical way of thinking about the community/goals/how the progress works. Then you should have released 80% of the community already including me years ago.

But who do you pick out of all people? Trl, one of the few guys who is actually making a difference in here. (Even if it's just minor to you) by making video tutorials, doing dozens of drawovers for new modellers,giving advice and etcetera.

The moment someone doesn't have the exact same method process in their mind like you have, you try to push it on them, then try to force it (for example, when almost pushing Xatoku to release his source code against his will, while that was entirely his choice to make), and later on if that all fails, go into dictator mode and pushing promising people away (Joel) or high five them (Trl). Even if it's with your best intentions and having the bigger picture for this community in mind.

Granted. Having slaves to build the piramides was probably the fastest, most efficient way to build them back in the time. But that doesn't mean it's always the most humane/civilized or better way if you get my point. You should show some more respect/gratitude towards the people in here who have invested a lot of time in this project you and Dave founded. It's a wonderful one, but no one wants a "leader" who'm they have to be constantly afraid for if they might have said something wrong, applied a wrong thinking process, or think outside the box.

Either high five 99% off the community, or unban Trl. But thread us all the same. Make up your mind. Trl was a great asset and you are well aware of this. You were the one always talking about his improvements over the years. If this goes on you'll lose everyone here over the time.

Because honestly how could you expect anyone to keep motivated and stick around here after having witnessed or felt such actions. They will get fed up with such management, because no matter how promising this project is, motivated they are or just being huge fans, everyone has his limits. (And they can reach it quite fast with you). Even if you were 100% right, don't you consider it would be better in the long term if you hadn't scared people such as Joel,Trl away? Don't you think their work in 2,3 years would have compensated whatever reason they went away for now?

And claiming that this project can survive solely on you and MDave alone shows how less you actually care about the people in here, makes us feel expendable and just being the means to an end. And I honestly think instead of "surviving" It'd be only inactive, sure it's open sourced so it can't actually die out, but I doubt there would be many progress at all. So before inclining how futile and insignificant we truly are, you might have to consider which impact your words could have.

Even if you are theoretically right, which you are always, you tend to sound very condescending towards us by saying things such as

"TRL was but one pupil in a sea of many."

. This might be true, but I often ask myself what we are to you really? Human beings, or tools and equipment in order to finish a building?

Oh and I'm well aware there will be a long self justification/intimidating and hard to understand vocabulary answer is going to follow up, diminishing everything I just said, yet I don't think anyone can deny what I just stated. I mean no disrespect at all, I just hope you don't lose everyone who cares about this project.[/quote]

Sunday, January 15, 2012

I agree with Domitjen.

Sunday, January 15, 2012

Guys you mind keeping it short though not sweet

Sunday, January 15, 2012

Oh hey, let's throw out anyone that doesn't use the same process I do or follows my train of thought.

Sunday, January 15, 2012

Sorry but I need to know if the already a Piccolo turban and the weighted clothes?

And about this model,is it still WIP?

Sunday, January 15, 2012

Epic wrote : I agree with Domitjen.

Sunday, January 15, 2012

I wouldn't have any problem with that entire post you just wrote, if it wasn't for the fact that you aren't threatening everyone the same. If that is your rational and logical way of thinking about the community/goals/how the progress works. Then you should have released 80% of the community already including me years ago.

There's a difference between suggesting new elements to replace placeholders / making an addon pack and suggesting replacements of existing components that have ACTUAL planning and designs driving them. Nobody has suggested replacement of an existing design mentality in such a rude manner with an idea that was a step back over the current one.

The important aspect of this thread was not his results, but moreover his tone and stubbornness to adapt or discuss design philosophy.

But who do you pick out of all people? Trl, one of the few guys who is actually making a difference in here. (Even if it's just minor to you) by making video tutorials, doing dozens of drawovers for new modellers,giving advice and etcetera.

Nobody questioned his commitment or developmental progress lately. He's been doing plenty in respects to this generation. This measure of progress has very little to do with the fact that he behaved inappropriately and refused to debate in a clean, conventional way.

The moment someone doesn't have the exact same method process in their mind like you have, you try to push it on them, then try to force it (for example, when almost pushing Xatoku to release his source code against his will, while that was entirely his choice to make), and later on if that all fails, go into dictator mode and pushing promising people away (Joel) or high five them (Trl).

You examine these scenarios with far too much blind contempt to see their actual context and intentions. You examine only the results and never the driving forces behind them.

I don't push my ideals on anyone. If I see someone using a thought process that I had once used in the past, yes, I will let my experience with the matter kick in and present my case. That's just a matter of applied knowledge. Learning from history and improving upon the mistakes of the past is what has driven humanity for thousands of years.

Granted. Having slaves to build the piramides was probably the fastest, most efficient way to build them back in the time. But that doesn't mean it's always the most humane/civilized or better way if you get my point. You should show some more respect/gratitude towards the people in here who have invested a lot of time in this project you and Dave founded. It's a wonderful one, but no one wants a "leader" who'm they have to be constantly afraid for if they might have said something wrong, applied a wrong thinking process, or think outside the box.

Your analogy doesn't even apply in the slightest way. You're trying to sensationalize TRL as some abused and mistreated individual when in fact it was he who was truly detestable in this case. Not only that, but you branded the entire community as workhorses in one fell swoop. Nobody in this thread has made such a claim even remotely in relation to justify you insulting your own brethren by comparing them as such.

Either high five 99% off the community, or unban Trl. But thread us all the same. Make up your mind. Trl was a great asset and you are well aware of this. You were the one always talking about his improvements over the years. If this goes on you'll lose everyone here over the time.

Don't be so melodramatic. There are no absolutes like you are suggesting in place or in need. If you'll review the reading material from previous posts, I've explained why TRL was handled in a different manner -- history, tonality, and scope.

Because honestly how could you expect anyone to keep motivated and stick around here after having witnessed or felt such actions. They will get fed up with such management, because no matter how promising this project is, motivated they are or just being huge fans, everyone has his limits. (And they can reach it quite fast with you). Even if you were 100% right, don't you consider it would be better in the long term if you hadn't scared people such as Joel,Trl away? Don't you think their work in 2,3 years would have compensated whatever reason they went away for now?

Joel is a completely different case from TRL. He made a conscious choice to leave based on conflicts of interest. He was never ousted or even directly pushed away. There's also a lot of complex history between us that you are completely unaware of. Again, you only look at the surface-level of a situation and assume you grasp full understanding.

Stop letting your overzealous agenda/obsession with ZEQ2-lite's success cloud your judgement and perspective, Domitjen. This has been a persistent issue with many of your own actions in the past. You should come to realize that some situations require a degree of analysis and finesse when handling before running in head first shouting and immediately taking a side -- especially in a case where sides are moot.

And claiming that this project can survive solely on you and MDave alone shows how less you actually care about the people in here, makes us feel expendable and just being the means to an end. And I honestly think instead of "surviving" It'd be only inactive, sure it's open sourced so it can't actually die out, but I doubt there would be many progress at all. So before inclining how futile and insignificant we truly are, you might have to consider which impact your words could have.

Context! I never made any kind of claim that anyone was insignificant or lacking in importance in this community. This is a wild deduction you have created yourself.

My comment was in respect that the game will not die out overnight simply because of the loss of a single member and yet you managed to (once again) blow it COMPLETELY out of proportion as if I had defiantly proclaimed an entire community as worthless fodder.

I often ask myself what we are to you really?

Seeds.

Oh and I'm well aware there will be a long self justification/intimidating and hard to understand vocabulary answer is going to follow up, diminishing everything I just said, yet I don't think anyone can deny what I just stated. I mean no disrespect at all, I just hope you don't lose everyone who cares about this project.

Everything you said would have been completely true if you hadn't taken its entirety out of context and applied a weird condescending viewpoint to every word spoken. I'm not some emperor/sovereign, Domitjen, nor am I entirely sure why you have created this elaborate perception of me as such when reading everything I write.

Sunday, January 15, 2012

While I myself am not too particularly pleased about any of this, particularly TRL's "departure", It seems pointless to let this thread thrive. The only posts relevant to what happened are Zeth's and TRL's, as they're the only ones that stepped into this thread that truly understand where the standards bar is on the SVN(and Niels, I imagine ).

Most of the rest are either an attempt to fuel something, or just seem like out-right boot-licking, for the sake of being on the side of the hierarchy.

If I were actually someone with something contribution-worthy, just knowing that this thread is still kicking would be a constant demotivator.

Djosama wrote : He will be missed and probably be back anyways.

I hope you're right. I'm also hoping this will keep people from getting too upset.

However, in a community environment, it's natural for people to be upset with the potential virtual(or real) loss of a fellow member. Heck, I'm affected. If you don't have a problem with TRL being gone, good for you. I will, although I won't let it be detrimental to me. It isn't really anyone's place to tell others how to think or feel.

Anyway, although my post is largely hypocritical, posting about how posts in this thread shouldn't be here, I hope the thread is killed with fire, or Mima's trademark brand of Ninjary. It's all so counter-productive.

Anyway, back to just minding my own business.