ZEQ2 Lite

Friday, January 13, 2012

The thought of scaling Piccolo and doing a cool render popped into my head.

So just scaling the rigged max file doesn't work.
I went into the animation section and into figure mode and scaled the rig there. The model auto adjust then too.

For some reason the celshading is messed up in those max files. Strange black lines appear on the texture. So I imported it into a new max file for one good render (the one without shading)

The one with the blue background is the original Piccolo. He really does look like a midget version there.

Friday, January 13, 2012

Nice, now with his cape and turban. He will look awesome.

Friday, January 13, 2012

It'd be good if that pose was the idle lock one

Friday, January 13, 2012

For poses like this it's important to arch the first chest bone back and rotate the shoulder bones down and a bit backwards.

One leg is rotated sideways and put a little bit behind the other.

Looking at it, I think I might also have to scale the hands a bit more.

The only problem with this method is that you can't move any parts only scale them. So to really get the exact proportions right a rerig would still be needed I think.

Also editing proportions is a lot easier when your model is still mirrored. So again 2 arguments for getting it right the first time!

Friday, January 13, 2012

TRL wrote : For poses like this it's important to arch the first chest bone back and rotate the shoulder bones down and a bit backwards.

One leg is rotated sideways and put a little bit behind the other.

Looking at it, I think I might also have to scale the hands a bit more.

The only problem with this method is that you can't move any parts only scale them. So to really get the exact proportions right a rerig would still be needed I think.

Also editing proportions is a lot easier when your model is still mirrored. So again 2 arguments for getting it right the first time!

TRL looking good When will be new stable revision

Friday, January 13, 2012

His torso is too small, makes his legs look too long. Good idea though, make Piccolo NBA size.

Friday, January 13, 2012

well the size is pretty good...

howewer of course now
arms are too small and shorter..also the hands..

in the android saga ,we see the biggest Piccolo ever,as muscle mass in that saga..

Friday, January 13, 2012

I've already made the arms longer and biceps bigger. His shoulders are broader. I just need to scale the hands more like I said.

The chest probably looks too small because it's about the only thing I didn't scale. Basically his waist band needs to be a bit lower according to refs.

Edit:

Here's a quick update. That should do the trick. Also in my pose his torso already looked smaller because his back is bend backwards a lot. Plus his shoulders bend down. So here's it's the original pose.

Friday, January 13, 2012

Such an improvement.

Friday, January 13, 2012

Zeth looking this 3 pictures...

the original respect series picture have the head too big,and the neck area too small..
also the legs are very a little shorter..
and forearms are a little smaller..
the feet are a little bigger..

so I think that in the latest edit picture by TRL Piccolo should be fine..
I like the new proportions..

what do you think?

Friday, January 13, 2012

I think you are missing the undertones of this conversation.
It's not about result. It's about approach.

No, I'm not referring to my comment with the attachment.
My sincerity is fleeting at the moment.

Friday, January 13, 2012

Zeth that was my approach..


TRL thinking an improvement..



make arms a little longer..maybe

Friday, January 13, 2012

Yes. Lets just make random changes and suggestions all day WITHOUT dozens of accuracy comparisons/drawovers to series references. That'll surely improve the model's issues.

These things need to be heavily discussed and heavily debated based on substantiated evidence from the series as well as taking into consideration style goals. No change on an existing model will be accepted to the SVN without using some kind of collaborative scientific process of comparison -- and thus where TRL (and others) falters in his self-absorbed changes.

This is also why his Yamucha will always remain in a state far, FAR under the Gohan he scrutinized so strongly. Without an organized stepped procedure guiding the design phase, the results are inclined to remain nonobjective and imprecise to the goals.

Friday, January 13, 2012

well, it seems obvious that we must first discuss this for a long time .. have a lot of evidence, and understand together what is the prototype on average ...

we do not dare ever before to be sure ..
This is not an addon any ... is an official character
...

so be careful ..

Zeth for sure .. not just me and TRL .. but many believe that Piccolo stable,official etc. is too little
is too similar to Goku in body scale..
generally that is not possible..

yes is the best picoolo ever..is the most beautiful Piccolo saw in any game of Dragon Ball..

only the body scale isn't a correct prototype...

Friday, January 13, 2012

Nello, I don't think you are understanding still.

I'm not questioning that upgrades need to be done. The very existence of version 6 models when all of the ZEQ2-lite ones are version 5 shows this. My problem is in the approach.

If upgrades and improvement are done, then I expect an equal if not SUPERIOR design approach to be used. Randomly grabbing images and spotting changes by eye based on preferences is not acceptable. Let me define an example sequence of steps that one might use :

• 1. Decide on saga and style restrictions. (mixed, single, artist, etc.)
• 2. Collect dozens of references of specialized regions (head, clothing/accessory regions, body, legs, etc.) for the character at varying angles (upclose, full, back, front, side, perspective).
• 3. Filter references using a process of medium (average) comparison for determining existence and persistence of details and proportions. Utilize only commonly-present/majority sources of evidence.
• 4. Decide on mesh structure, separation tactics, and techniques/approaches that will be applied on various regions as well as triangle and texture size limitations.
• 5. Create/Revise base model construction using references.
• 6. Do a comparative process with existence references using draw-overs and overlays to distinguish differences in current details/structure.
• 7. Repeat step 5 until complete.

This is the process we used for version 6 models in ZEQ2 (not lite). The version 5 models used an early/condensed form of this. I'm completely open for an approach that's more optimized than the above, but anything less is simply a step backwards.

Friday, January 13, 2012

from now on we will pursue these 7 basic concepts of work ...

Friday, January 13, 2012

Zeth is right..the Original is way better.
Of course, TRL's Piccolo look good to..maybe we can use it(I said maybe), as I transformation level(kami fusion maybe) and than he can't transform back to his normal form. Its good because than you can..clearly see your enemy was Piccolo or Kamicolo(or what is his/her name *laughing out loud*). But again, the original is look way better..and if you Nello realise, well Akira Toriyama and every manga creator work with scheme that means they draw a human body first, than eyes etc and they do this next time so that's why if you play with Dragon Quest you say: look this character really looks like Goku! And this character kind of like master roshi fused with kami! Because its Akira Toriyama samas style, that's why all Dragonball character looks the same, because the style. So in that case who cares about Piccolo use the same body system, its perfect. Perfect all the way.

Friday, January 13, 2012

I want to completely agree with Zeth, but I think I see where Nello and TRL are coming from.... Piccolo's proportions were never crystal clear on the series, they just kept changing them with every artist....

I like the proportions shown by TRL mainly because they represent proportions from some of the better aspects of Piccolo's build. The Buu Saga displayed this height correctly to me for the first time when I was a kid. Though Zeth's example could be more true to the point in time's accuracy.

I'm sorry if this makes commenting on which saga those pictures came from completely null and void. I always change my mind and contradict myself.

EDIT: I can't help but opinionate with those awesomesauce proportions though. It makes him seem the correct height while keeping his head normal size. You just don't see people over 7ft tall with legs that short, even anime characters...

Friday, January 13, 2012

Piccolo's proportions were never crystal clear on the series, they just kept changing them with every artist....

Thus my point about choosing either a single saga, artist, or medium average as your focus goals.

Zeth is right..the Original is way better.

I can't help but opinionate with the Buu Saga's awesomesauce proportions. It makes him seem the correct height.

That's just the thing though. My point with the image was to show that superficial analysis is frugal at best! Neither is 'better'. TRL and the original Piccolo model have completely different foundations of abasement! They had different goals in mind. They had different style representations in mind. Most importantly though, they have different DESIGN philosophies guiding them.

Everyone. Stop using opinions and loose references and start using science.

Friday, January 13, 2012

The only thing annoys me..TRL version have strange eyes, I'm mean the eyeball color is not clear white..
Anyway, I can imagine a..Piccolo transformation with a little bit bigger muscles and lighting aura(kamicolo)

Friday, January 13, 2012

Great one dude

Saturday, January 14, 2012

It's not because I don't show the refs that they're not there. I used around 6 (of which 2 official settei which all anime drawings are based on) and I use a opacity overlapping method in Photoshop that is unfailable.

Now if that series comparison picture is one of the refs the original model used. Than it's already flawed at the base. Because that series picture uses a frog view you can't use it. It's apparently totally missed this perspective because the model next to it uses a pure frontal one.

If these are the kind of refs that were chosen, I'd like to see the rest of them. And see which version of Piccolo this was basically based on.

I think a nonexisting one, because he's not a midget. Everyone is seeing it with the naked eye and you're still going out on a limb to nostalgicly claim that the original is correct.

Saturday, January 14, 2012

TRL's Piccolo reminds me, when Piccolo fight against DR.Gero.

Saturday, January 14, 2012

TRL, re-read my posts and apply some reading comprehension. You obviously aren't even following what's going on currently in the discussion. I never even made the slightest claim that the current Piccolo was proper nor that your changes did not have rationality to them.

The point is that this is NOT something one person does alone. Period. The above procedure is a collaborative process that involves days of discussion alone for many steps. Regardless of results, you have no experience with this process and the intricacies surrounding it.

I'm not humoring your childish bickering any longer and I have little problem dismissing you from this community entirely considering your recent conceitedness and past transgressions. If you are going to step up and try fill these shoes, then you will follow the established protocol in place.

Do it right or don't bother at all.

Saturday, January 14, 2012

I have little appeal for your elitist mannerisms myself.

Why are you assuming your method is better? I'm using several of the points you described. The only part that is missing is your sense of control. I can understand that. But having it go over several people who are pulling back and forth only slows down the process.

So to you the results don't matter, only the process? That's what it sounds like or otherwise all your previous posts are invalid.

And really are you threatening to high five me, did I read that right? Come on man who's childish now?