ZEQ2 Lite

Saturday, August 02, 2014

I was plaiying a little online and there's always the same, a bunch of overpowered characters, always the same Super Saiyan 3 characters, etc. so... characters like Raditz, the saibaman, and some others are kind of lacking in identifiable function online... anyway my point is... why don't delete the power levels?, I mean, that way you are going to be able to play with your favorite character without the power level issue, if every character have the same power level (32767) the battles are going to be more stable (that's the only way to make a fair online battle), because none commercial game (the bt sagas, Raging Blast, etc.) have that ill-advised issue and you are going to be able to fight with a saibaman, Raditz, krillin, etc. without any kind of problem...

Saturday, August 02, 2014

I was thinking about this a couple of days ago due to people using Vegito and I was using Raditz. I Just keept dying with one punch.

Saturday, August 02, 2014

Earth Special Forces is the only game I know where they did well on the power level system.

In ZEQ2 I think it's just a number. The stats are defined by others functions, so I don't see the problem :\

I had rigor with an undefined power level (3923892103)
and I got killed with 1 punch by a Goku Super Saiyan 3.

It depends on how the server is set. I think the server takes the host's game as a reference for characters informations/stats. So it depends on how the hoster has modified his characters' stats...

Saturday, August 02, 2014

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Earth Special Forces is the only game I know where they did well on the power level system.

In ZEQ2 I think it's just a number. The stats are defined by others functions, so I don't see the problem :\

I had rigor with an undefined power level (3923892103)
and I got killed with 1 punch by a Goku Super Saiyan 3.

It depends on how the server is set. I think the server takes the host's game as a reference for characters informations/stats. So it depends on how the hoster has modified his characters' stats...

actually no, it's not about the server it's about the character itself, in each character folder there is a specific file(I won't say it otherwise more people will use it) which you can play with your characters power like add damage to punches, knockbacks etc.

Sunday, August 03, 2014

The tier.CFG file.

Sunday, August 03, 2014

I know gokua, it's what I was reffering. The server uses the "game" as reference for characters' stats.

I'm doing characters I know what tier.cfg is

Sunday, August 03, 2014

In ZEQ2 I think it's just a number. The stats are defined by others functions, so I don't see the problem :\

Power level (current and total) are scalars for all statistics. Technically speaking, the range is between 0 and 32767, but visually this can be shown as much higher in cases where some tier.cfg files scale individual areas. Balance issues really only exist if the server is using exploitative or unbalanced addons. If you'd like an unbias experience, you'll need to find a reliable server that doesn't use such addons.

Sunday, August 03, 2014

>Zeth

Or the hoster can change stats to use the character without disturbing the gameplay.

Just need to change the powerhudmultiplier and some stats that are bloppity blip bloop..

Personnally I HAVE to put more defense on my characters because some are too much bloppity blip bloop..

Exemple on the attacks:

It's too easy to make a character that has a ki storm that can be the triple of bigmap for the explosion and the radius (I think it was radius for the power, I don't remember) and can be charged in 0.000001 second..

Fortunately nobody made that and I wish it never happens..

Sunday, August 03, 2014

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : >Zeth

Or the hoster can change stats to use the character without disturbing the gameplay.

Just need to change the powerhudmultiplier and some stats that are bloppity blip bloop..

Personnally I HAVE to put more defense on my characters because some are too much bloppity blip bloop..

Exemple on the attacks:

It's too easy to make a character that has a ki storm that can be the triple of bigmap for the explosion and the radius (I think it was radius for the power, I don't remember) and can be charged in 0.000001 second..

Fortunately nobody made that and I wish it never happens..

yeah that would be a nightmare imagine everyone in the server spams it it would be worse than those frieza supernova spammers

Sunday, August 03, 2014

I released a powerful Gogeta (2 powerful attacks that can destroy 3 guys that are near) and went on some servers that have it (so some guys had it too) but never saw spams of these attacks. Not everything is dark finally

Sunday, August 03, 2014

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS), if the guy who host the server don't have he same addon (in this case rigor) your rigor is just another base Goku for the other players (for that reason you still die with one punch), so... even if you make a new over powerred character you will not be able to make it that destructible if the guy who host the server don't have that addon

my point is... even without the addons, Super Saiyan 3 Goku can kill with one hit almost every official character (Raditz, krillin, kid Gohan, saibaman, Piccolo, Nappa, vegetaSaiyan) just because the high tier / power level, and if that's the case, why someone bothered to create / animate those characters if they are completely lacking in identifiable function against Super Saiyan 3 Goku or even Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta...

that's true in the show but this is a project (used as game) and the power levels are just to make some characters completely unbeatable...

and for that reason every "addon maker" (Goku painter) is making all those overpowered characters like Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) with this "new" Gogeta who can destroy 3 guys if they are near with one attack...

you aren't making this project stable because you replace SKILLS (user skills) with overpowered characters / attacks... and if that's the case why you ask for new characters if they will never be able to kill another Super Saiyan 3-Super Saiyan 4-Super Mega Ultra Mega Hyper Xtreme (times two) random character

Sunday, August 03, 2014

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS), if the guy who host the server don't have he same addon (in this case rigor) your rigor is just another base Goku for the other players (for that reason you still die with one punch), so... even if you make a new over powerred character you will not be able to make it that destructible if the guy who host the server don't have that addon

That's what I said, all about the hoster and his game contents.

my point is... even without the addons, Super Saiyan 3 Goku can kill with one hit almost every official character (Raditz, krillin, kid Gohan, saibaman, Piccolo, Nappa, vegetaSaiyan) just because the high tier / power level, and if that's the case, why someone bothered to create / animate those characters if they are completely lacking in identifiable function against Super Saiyan 3 Goku or even Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta...

You talk about the new ones with 1000 mil power level? Or the revo 5 with 393 mil or something like that ?

and for that reason every "addon maker" (Goku painter) is making all those overpowered characters like Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) with this "new" Gogeta who can destroy 3 guys if they are near with one attack...

Moddb "addon makers" don't usually know how to modify characters' stats. So it's just the power level that is modified. Personnally, the Gogeta I created has spectacular big explosions but small radius with 9000/10000 power. So even if the explosion do more than every basic maps of ZEQ2-lite it will only kill peoples that are near the center of the explosion (not big). Even on a server having this character I never really killed many with these attacks. The negative point of my characters is that they are weak (never really touched stats of the tier.cfg to not be to high for others), so I get killed by everyone, even krillin..

you aren't making this project stable because you replace SKILLS (user skills) with overpowered characters / attacks... and if that's the case why you ask for new characters if they will never be able to kill another Super Saiyan 3-Super Saiyan 4-Super Mega Ultra Mega Hyper Xtreme (times two) random character

I don't replace skills, I add some. (that's the reason it take more time to do..)

The request of having more character is for the game content diversity. Once all characters will be made I think peoples will get that their addons should be less powerful. For my addons I said higher that they are not that powerful even with high powerlevels and are even weak in front of others.

I tested nightmare Brolly lssj5 (that has around 1000 mil)on a server that have it and I have been beaten by a Goku Super Saiyan. (not only because I'm a uninformed participator at fighting in ZEQ2-lite...)

By the way, before complaining about other characters power level, have you looked at your vegettoV2 ? 1000 mil at Super Saiyan , double at Super Saiyan 2 and 2I3810928389Y7489327489 thing for the Super Saiyan 3...

He seems even more powerful than rigor...

Sunday, August 03, 2014

and you don't get the point... if someone made a new (stable 1536) release with every character with the same power level (32767) or even a gamepack with some NEW characters (not all those gokus, vegettos, gogetas, gohans, etc.), the online battles are going to be much more stable and fair (even a Super Saiyan 3 character with 32767) I mean, deleting everything in the tier.CFG and just changing the aura color for the transformations every character is going to have the same power level and you are going to even have a Super Saiyan 3 unlimited, BUT he's power is going to be the same as the base form, of course every tier / transformation should have an own attacks (animations attacks) that way you can choose you favorite transformation with his own moveset and at the same time make a fair battle...

very easy right?...

Sunday, August 03, 2014

yeah, so why did you cheated your Vegetto if you are complaining about that..

The only way to "fix" the problem is to remove the code part for this. Good luck.

Sunday, August 03, 2014

this is not about Vegetto or any other addon, this is about made a new stable version or gamepack and every character on that should have the same power level... anyway never mind...

Sunday, August 03, 2014

yeah like I said, the new rev need to have the code for stats removed or at least hidden.

Sunday, August 03, 2014

my point is... even without the addons, Super Saiyan 3 Goku can kill with one hit almost every official character (Raditz, krillin, kid Gohan, saibaman, Piccolo, Nappa, vegetaSaiyan) just because the high tier / power level, and if that's the case, why someone bothered to create / animate those characters if they are completely lacking in identifiable function against Super Saiyan 3 Goku or even Super Saiyan 2 Vegeta...

That's because ZEQ2-lite's inheritance was purposed towards accuracy to the series more-so than trying to be a playable "game" with balance. We've stated many, MANY times all over the years that ZEQ2-lite was never intended to be played by anyone for any reason; it's simply not how it was built. It exists only as a tweaking/development platform.

Can you create balance with addon configs? Sure. That's something practically anyone can build and control if they choose to do so.

yeah like I said, the new rev need to have the code for stats removed or at least hidden.

That would be ridiculous and counter-intuitive to the project's entire goal. Treating ZEQ2-lite as a game in its current state is the problem -- not the exposure of modular functionality.

Sunday, August 03, 2014

Even if it's not supposed to be a game it's acually what it is.

Everyone think it except the ones that knows the history of the project.

Servers, huds, maps, beating ennemies, all of that.. It even had a team select in the Public Beta 1 and it returned in the last revisions. For me it's been done like a game since Public Beta 1 to the last revision. And that's everyone want it to be.

Why couldn't it be ? What is it at the base ? Just a program that do a render and execute some animations of some models ? ..... It's a pity.. It has so much potential for being a great game..

Sunday, August 03, 2014

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Even if it's not supposed to be a game it's acually what it is.

Just because everyone keeps saying this doesn't make it so, you know.

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Everyone think it except the ones that knows the history of the project.

Isn't it a reasonable statement that the ONLY opinions that truly and actually matter about ANY given project and the scopes/designs/goals/techniques are the opinions of the ones doing the actual work, rather than belly-aching about it?

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Servers, huds, maps, beating ennemies, all of that.. It even had a team select in the Public Beta 1 and it returned in the last revisions. For me it's been done like a game since Public Beta 1 to the last revision. And that's everyone want it to be.

There is absolutely nothing stopping ANYONE from doing forward work on ZEQ2Lite that would bring about game objectives. I sincerely doubt anyone would discourage a person from doing so.

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Why couldn't it be ? What is it at the base ? Just a program that do a render and execute some animations of some models ? ..... It's a pity.. It has so much potential for being a great game..

So there hasn't been a long-winded Skatter post in quite some time. I will rectify that right now.

You speak of pity and potential like they're absolutely tied to what you can play, which is, well, in this sense, categorically wrong.

There isn't anything pitiful about this project, and beyond a few members here and there(myself included), it's not a pitiful community either.

This project, throughout its many stages, has gone on to inspire a ton of people to learn, grow, try to acquire new skills or just advance skills they already have.

It has molded people, better or worse, toward goals and set them to thinking in a way about both video games and their development that they might've never considered otherwise.

And potential? Look around at some of the offshoot projects that are springing up/have sprung up in the past. Most of the projects that grace these forums likely wouldn't exist, or at least not in the same capacity, without THIS project. I know nothing I'll ever do/ever have done since the Bid for Power days could escape being somewhat attributed to the tenacity of this "pity" that you see. The project isn't pitiful, your view of it is.

Sunday, August 03, 2014

Just because everyone keeps saying this doesn't make it so, you know.

Just because it's similar or even same as a video game. Even if the project is meant to be for pushing/developing peoples' potential, these contributors have build ZEQ2-lite as a game.

Isn't it a reasonable statement that the ONLY opinions that truly and actually matter about ANY given project and the scopes/designs/goals/techniques are the opinions of the ones doing the actual work, rather than belly-aching about it?

Don't get it.. I do effort to understand and speak English but it's too much..

There is absolutely nothing stopping ANYONE from doing forward work on ZEQ2Lite that would bring about game objectives. I sincerely doubt anyone would discourage a person from doing so.

Almost nobody do anything on ZEQ2-lite... I mean, something that is finished and go on an official revs.. Seems like there's only addons that are still being created, and it's not really beautiful to see.... And the sentences that come back again and again and again: "so, do it yourself "

I have enough replied to that..

So there hasn't been a long-winded Skatter post in quite some time. I will rectify that right now.

You speak of pity and potential like they're absolutely tied to what you can play, which is, well, in this sense, categorically wrong.

There isn't anything pitiful about this project, and beyond a few members here and there(myself included), it's not a pitiful community either.

This project, throughout its many stages, has gone on to inspire a ton of people to learn, grow, try to acquire new skills or just advance skills they already have.

It has molded people, better or worse, toward goals and set them to thinking in a way about both video games and their development that they might've never considered otherwise.

And potential? Look around at some of the offshoot projects that are springing up/have sprung up in the past. Most of the projects that grace these forums likely wouldn't exist, or at least not in the same capacity, without THIS project. I know nothing I'll ever do/ever have done since the Bid for Power days could escape being somewhat attributed to the tenacity of this "pity" that you see. The project isn't pitiful, your view of it is.

Not this sense for pity, I can't find the word to define it.. (don't even know if it exist in English, or it should be something MUCH different..)

In fact it's because most of the community doesn't see the project in the same point of view as you do.(not the contrary because it would be illogical) For most the project is about the content that the contributors made. Actually looking like, a game..

If contributors are making their stuff now and has the motivation, it's cool for them and all, and I even follow some projects that come from here. But THIS project is quite important for me since I have seen some things that convinced me that it has an ENORMOUS potential to be in the future a really good video game. (without thinking about official ones, a fan made one, only the fans can make the best)

Where has all of this gone ?: http://zeq2lite.deviantart.com/art/Goku-Kaio-ken2-135909380
http://zeq2lite.deviantart.com/art/Zeq2Lite-Goku-Raditz-Vegeta-135214633

A really good game that is looking exactly same as Dragon Ball, that's like a dream. And nello almost made it as a reality with f3+ (nello... :'< ) on the actual rev. Why some guys that can code and stay here wait for others to do it... Like this, it was pretty lacking in identifiable function to give something to the community THIS soon that will never be finished (or maybe in 2025, if it's still on..).

What happened nello.. You were the only one that really could do something with the actual release.. All of this, like, thrown in a trash..

What happened to all they guys that has worked on the project then just gave up like "ahhh awesome ham it, it's broing as heck, I give up"..

I would get nervous to see something I began to not be finished.. Even on the crappy addons I made, since 1 year I'm still trying to improve them to be fun and enjoyable for everyone and by the same time learn more..

Anyway... I think nobody will ever get my point..

I know shenku already told me something about that, but it's too discomforting to see this be that slow.. Most if the person that complain can't do anything... I'm like going nuts after writing this comment I even surely said things that will go in counter of what I want to say.. I'm going to return in my cave and continue what I do usually.[/quote]

Sunday, August 03, 2014

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote :
these contributors have build ZEQ2-lite as a game.

It is true that the builds you see are interactive, but the key difference is that they weren't attempting to draw fans. Fans have certainly stepped up and done some things, and sometimes our love of a franchise will inspire us to do more, but the goal has been to draw developers, not players.

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote :
Don't get it.. I do effort to understand and speak English but it's too much..

What I mean is that the only people who can legitimately define for you what the goals are, are the developers. Anyone else who defines them for you wouldn't really have the authority(and understanding, since these types of posts keep popping up) to paint the proper picture for you.

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Almost nobody do anything on ZEQ2-lite...I have enough replied to that..

The point is that people always complain about what state ZEQ2Lite is in. You say you've replied enough to the "do it yourself" posts, but don't you imagine the developers get tired of seeing complaints? If you can complain, you should expect a "Do it yourself" post.

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : For most the project is about the content that the contributors made.

It has never been about what MOST people see. Most people can't grasp the hard work that's already gone into what you have at your fingertips. Heck, I can appreciate it, but thinking about it still makes my head spin.

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Why some guys that can code and stay here wait for others to do it... Like this, it was pretty lacking in identifiable function to give something to the community THIS soon that will never be finished (or maybe in 2025, if it's still on..).

Again, it's just that you don't understand the intent behind it. The intent was to bring in developers, not to bring in fans. A project like this can have ZERO fan circulation and be plenty healthy. I will probably die before this project does.

Also, a project can have a lot of fans, but be cancerous and dying from the inside out. That is not the case here. You shouldn't use fan activity to measure this project. I've already shown you in my last post some of the things you can measure by

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : What happened nello.. You were the only one that really could do something with the actual release.. All of this, like, thrown in a trash..

What happened to all they guys that has worked on the project then just gave up like "ahhh awesome ham it, it's broing as heck, I give up"..

This is no slam on Nello, because I respect his abilities, but the addon packs were always going to fizzle out. You can read some posts I wrote a couple of years back trying to warn addon pack makers of just that. Eventually you run out of characters/abilities that are feasible under the current system.

The problem is that rather than saying "Hey! I know! Let's expand the system!" people get comfortable recycling their methods and just repeat only what they already know, which isn't progress(I'm guilty of this, too!)

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Anyway... I think nobody will ever get my point..

It isn't that no one gets your point. You don't think we've all dreamed of how cool it'd be to have the interactivity in ZEQ2Lite that we know it's capable of? We TOTALLY get your point, it's just that complaints don't help. Only action does. You can make addons all day, but until you're doing more, you hardly have a right to complain at others for not doing more as well.

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : I'm like going nuts after writing this comment

Don't go nuts. You aren't alone in your hopes for ZEQ2Lite's fuller realization. Just try to spur people on positively, rather than complaining that no one's done anything.

Sunday, August 03, 2014

It is true that the builds you see are interactive, but the key difference is that they weren't attempting to draw fans. Fans have certainly stepped up and done some things, and sometimes our love of a franchise will inspire us to do more, but the goal has been to draw developers, not players.

I know that, it's cool to draw developers as you said but I'm one of those who want to not draw but to animate, giving life to something everyone will enjoy. (it's not just wanting, or I don't see the point of making addon actually for me..)

What I mean is that the only people who can legitimately define for you what the goals are, are the developers. Anyone else who defines them for you wouldn't really have the authority(and understanding, since these types of posts keep popping up) to paint the proper picture for you.

I know and understand the goals of the project, I'm not reffering to another person when saying all of that. I'm telling all of that firstly because it's my though.

The point is that people always complain about what state ZEQ2Lite is in. You say you've replied enough to the "do it yourself" posts, but don't you imagine the developers get tired of seeing complaints? If you can complain, you should expect a "Do it yourself" post.

That's why I was going through the code in the svn for the since my last message for searching and understanding the code with what I already knows of the language (not much)

It has never been about what MOST people see. Most people can't grasp the hard work that's already gone into what you have at your fingertips. Heck, I can appreciate it, but thinking about it still makes my head spin.

I can imagine how it has been hard to get there from zero, and I doodling appreciate to have something this advanced, but some things are like 50% done when it could be finished quickly with their skills. Peoples see it as a game, because the content is built like a game, peoples won't understand the real meaning of the project because they've never searched to understand more about it..

I'm not coming on the forums, following anything that is reffered to the project and making stuff stuff but still stuff for it for nothing.. If I stayed 2 years following the project knowing there was nothing new, it's not for nothing..

Again, it's just that you don't understand the intent behind it. The intent was to bring in developers, not to bring in fans. A project like this can have ZERO fan circulation and be plenty healthy. I will probably die before this project does.

Also, a project can have a lot of fans, but be cancerous and dying from the inside out. That is not the case here. You shouldn't use fan activity to measure this project. I've already shown you in my last post some of the things you can measure by Very Happy

Know that again, but the theme of the content seems to create troubles with that goal.

This is no slam on Nello, because I respect his abilities, but the addon packs were always going to fizzle out. You can read some posts I wrote a couple of years back trying to warn addon pack makers of just that. Eventually you run out of characters/abilities that are feasible under the current system.

The problem is that rather than saying "Hey! I know! Let's expand the system!" people get comfortable recycling their methods and just repeat only what they already know, which isn't progress(I'm guilty of this, too!)

I never saw nello having impossibility to do something better everytime he did something. If peoples are repeating same things, it's because they are lazy to search more ways to increase possiblities to do better things.

It isn't that no one gets your point. You don't think we've all dreamed of how cool it'd be to have the interactivity in ZEQ2Lite that we know it's capable of? We TOTALLY get your point, it's just that complaints don't help. Only action does. You can make addons all day, but until you're doing more, you hardly have a right to complain at others for not doing more as well.

If you dream of something, you have to do the most as you can to make it true. That's what I'm trying to do, everyday I learn more about how it's made, possibilities and limits. But I don't really see a lot of peoples with my determination to bring something more. Plus, most of the peoples that does massive stuff stays on gamepacks with revo 5 quality.. What a big progress..

Don't go nuts. You aren't alone in your hopes for ZEQ2Lite's fuller realization. Just try to spur people on positively, rather than complaining that no one's done anything.

The only good points actually are anty that is doing new characters, and the world map project. The rest is "things" on moddb....

I'm facing tons on of bugs on ZEQ2-lite and there's some that I haven't found a solution anywhere. So I post multiple question, if someone knows about a solution (or even other questions to understand more about how the game is made), but nothing.. Can't get any reply... Seems like ZEQ2-lite is like a new thing to everyone or just the lazyness and the lose of interest to reply..

I'm always complaining about everything, I'm like that.. But I try my best to, one day, at least give something useful to what will grant a wish, not only mine but millions of people's dream... (or can ask shenron for it, but seems like cheating) Rendez-vous in 3 years.

Sunday, August 03, 2014

Well being a new guy to the whole project by that I mean I don't know how to do anything besides swap peoples moves (its funny watching krillin do special beam cannon) but my point is even for the casual gamer I was a vid of this game and being the Dragon Ball Z fan I am I downloaded it and played a little bit and loved it. Then I started thinking what if it was more Dragon Ball Z like where krillin had zero chance vs Goku. But then I thought well most people don't like hard core stuff like that, then I remembered there are like 20+ servers to get on and in my head that's 20+ different ways to play ZEQ2 lite. Some of us casual gamers like me would love to help in any way we can but nobody has any clue what to do. I for one have no idea how to help you guys out and I am working on learning how to make characters not for me and my fun but so when I see a post that say "New project beginning in need of character designer" or whatever I can say hey I can help. I want to eventually be able to help with code and all that but like I said I have zero experience. I would love to help a lot of people would I have been talking to the people on the servers and they all say we want more updated version and some would love to help but it almost feels like your trying to shut out the community by saying learn it on your own or just go here and read that. Not all people can learn like that. And on another note skill in mêlée fighting in ZEQ2 lite comes in handy when krillin gets jumped by Piccolo you might not win but you will certainly live to fight another day if you can pull it off (speaking from experience here) *laughing out loud* but that's my 2 cents for the night.

Sunday, August 03, 2014

I was thinking since few weeks to make a group of motivated peoples that will be present daily to learn/share experience and doing the most we can. But since I have so many characters to finish I can't do that... Because, I can't get help from anywhere I look... Except for ivan's rigging tutorial, it was the only thing that I found, the rest was learned being alone... What a cool way to leaaaarn...

Monday, August 04, 2014

I open this thread the second day and I find a story... wow