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New Dragonball anime to debut in July

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Zeth The Admin View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, July 07, 2015

Better late than never.

Although the original Japanese voice cast still lacks the tonal diversity of the English series (or newer anime on a whole), the first episode didn't fail to deliver. Animation, effects, character portrayals (at least as far as a "slice of life" episode goes), and even the music were all standouts. I was a little taken aback by the music to be honest. Given the low fidelity, 70's soap-opera-instrumental tracks of the original Japanese Dragon Ball series, it was a nice treat to hear a wider spectrum of genres encompassing both synthetic and live instruments applied relative to scene circumstance (much as Faulconer did). As much as I adored Bruce's work, I believe the current production quality in this area should completely moot the need for a separate score on future dubs.

All in all, looking forward to more.

Addendum : Curious if Trunk's "shadow dash" (new zanzoken effect?) or the snake's "water caustic overlay texture" are going to be used/abused more. Thoughts?

TRL View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, July 07, 2015

I've heard a lot of people complaining about the Goten and Trunks stuff, the videl being a typical housewife. But that all doesn't bother me.
In fact I really laughed at the kids naievity getting regular water as a beauty product and you also hear Toriyama through the whole seemingly tedious adventure. He probably wants to criticise the whole beauty industry that is so lively in Japan and Korea and the insane prices they ask for these products.
Toriyama being an older man now, I expect to see more stuff like this. This will definitely be a different series than dragonball or Dragon Ball Z. I already had a feeling like this reading the jaco manga. Toriyama basically is now every old character he portrays. Razz

Brad, apparently there is a new composer now, because the old one apparently had some trouble with copyright issues. I don't know the whole story.
I agree the music is not half bad, but still I'd like to see Faulconer return for super.

The snake overlay texture was to me the worst thing in the whole episode. I hope they ditch that technique as soon as possible. Also the snake had eyebrows.. That definitely isn't something Toriyama would design.
Overall the art style never was really obviously bad. In Dragon Ball Z you could have whole episodes that were a suffering to watch. Obviously a series (compared to a movie) is not going to have an art style that is always top notch.

Already this feels miles better than GT, because this just has a certain kind of sincerity. Toriyama dares to take his characters and story places that Toei would never dare on their own. That makes you believe what the characters are doing, makes it feel real. GT always felt fake and one dimensional to me, not just because Toei made it.


Like with his dance routine in BOG, there's going to be a shitstorm about Vegeta becoming too comical in the next episode. Yes also this character is going to change. At least he won't look like freddy mercury... *intense laughter*

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, July 07, 2015

>TRL

Laughing

Skatter #*&@%! View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, July 08, 2015

It's been super hard to formulate an objective opinion, so all I can really offer is subjectivity:

It was GREAT to see Tenshinhan, Yamucha, Chiaotzu and of course other familiars in the opening sequence as more than just a single still. The disconnect from these characters has been been one of the biggest issues in Dragon Ball Z for me, so I hope the opening sequence is foreshadowing that they'll not be forgotten, and won't fade into obscurity quite so quickly(or at all!) this time around.

Zeth wrote : I believe the current production quality in this area should completely moot the need for a separate score on future dubs.



I didn't become acquainted with Faulconer until ZEQ2Lite's Public Build, so I don't really suffer from misgivings at the lack of Faulconer's presence and won't be sad if there's no return. It isn't a jab at him, but you basically sum up my feelings here.

Zeth wrote : Although the original Japanese voice cast still lacks the tonal diversity of the English series...



I am holding out hope for an Ocean Dub of Super(they do apparently have their own dub for Kai), since if you aren't a fan of Chris Sabat, and I'm not, the English dub gets old real quick, and the Japanese voices of most anime never feel like a proper fit to me either, and I'm left thinking "That voice came out of THAT guy? Weird." Dragon Ball Z is one of the biggest "offenders" in that regard, although I do chalk this section up to my western sensibilities outweighing the Japanese sensibilities being presented.

The drawback to Ocean Dub is that even though I know Brian Drummond, Terry Klassen, and Scott McNeil would likely reprise their roles and knock them out of the park, we probably won't see Ian James Corlett, Kirby Morrow or my personal favorite, Peter Kelamis as Goku again. 3 out of 4 is good though.

TRL wrote : Overall the art style never was really obviously bad.



I was very disappointed in almost all outdoor shots when it comes to the backgrounds. They did fairly well indoors, but the outdoor environments seemed both rushed and lazy. I guess the budget or the coffee ran out, or both. Arnold advised me to cut them some slack since it's the first episode after a while, it just stuck out like a sore thumb.


TRL wrote : there's going to be a shitstorm about Vegeta becoming too comical in the next episode. Yes also this character is going to change.



I think the "problem" is that Vegeta's never really developed before, since when he does, he resets himself in sitcom fashion so that he sort of goes in a loop-we find him repeating the same development arc of becoming vulnerable and shucking his pride, then out of nowhere he gets it back and he's more full of himself than ever-repeating that a few times from Namek onward. He was the most predictable thing about the show, and that dance did more to show change to his personality than anything else could've-time will tell if he resets. I can't say I'm interested to see where they take him, since he's mostly just the Super Saiyan equivalent of Krillin as a plot device, and the comedic influence only strengthens that similarity, but it IS development.

TRL wrote : Also the snake had eyebrows..



I could NOT figure out why I didn't like the snake's design til you said that. It seemed off but I couldn't put my finger on it.

DBZkrisfhugz View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, July 08, 2015

read the Manga. It's freakig Better than the Anime. There was no Eyebrowed-Snake. And the MR. Satan is still like Mr. Satan in Dragon Ball Z. because the Mr. Satan in Dragon Ball Super is Taller than Goku. Da heck?.

Grega Perpetual Traveler View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, July 08, 2015

DBZkrisfhugz wrote : read the Manga. It's freakig Better than the Anime. There was no Eyebrowed-Snake. And the MR. Satan is still like Mr. Satan in Dragon Ball Z. because the Mr. Satan in Dragon Ball Super is Taller than Goku. Da heck?.



yeah its called fil-ler. Get used to it ^^

TRL View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Thursday, July 09, 2015

Skatter wrote :
It was GREAT to see Tenshinhan, Yamucha, Chiaotzu and of course other familiars in the opening sequence as more than just a single still. The disconnect from these characters has been been one of the biggest issues in Dragon Ball Z for me, so I hope the opening sequence is foreshadowing that they'll not be forgotten, and won't fade into obscurity quite so quickly(or at all!) this time around.



Although I would love for them to be relevant again too. A kind of return to the Saiyan sage epicness right. I don't see how they can without major powerups.
Unless... So apparently (spoilers!) they are going to a new universe and duke it out there. It's not sure yet who all is going but you can guess it's probably just the strong ones like Vegeta, Goku, maybe Piccolo and Gohan. Maybe at the same time a threat is coming to earth too which makes the earthlings left behind having to hold down the fort. It would have to be a significantly less powerful threat to give them a chance. But then if it's a less powerful enemy and at the same time the "real" fight is going on in the new universe. Will we even care? No one wants another garlic jr saga.

On the oceandub, just nope. I had to watch through the oceandub while watching the cell saga for the first time in Belgium. I was so excited after the epic Frieza saga but slam the voices, the music it was all such a drop in quality from Funimation. I guess the belgian channel got ocean dub cheaper or something and then after that they never even bothered to air the Buu saga. I remember it was still being dubbed by funimation at the time. So that's when I learned to use Kazaa. Razz


Skatter wrote : I was very disappointed in almost all outdoor shots when it comes to the backgrounds. They did fairly well indoors, but the outdoor environments seemed both rushed and lazy.



I never really noticed the backgrounds being bad, maybe a little rough and low on details but not necessarily bad. I guess it has to do with the artists now not having beautiful toriyama manga artwork to be inspired with.

Skatter wrote :
I think the "problem" is that Vegeta's never really developed before, since when he does, he resets himself in sitcom fashion so that he sort of goes in a loop-we find him repeating the same development arc of becoming vulnerable and shucking his pride, then out of nowhere he gets it back and he's more full of himself than ever-repeating that a few times from Namek onward. He was the most predictable thing about the show, and that dance did more to show change to his personality than anything else could've-time will tell if he resets. I can't say I'm interested to see where they take him, since he's mostly just the Super Saiyan equivalent of Krillin as a plot device, and the comedic influence only strengthens that similarity, but it IS development.



Interesting Skatter, I never really noticed that loop before. But I guess you're right. I did notice Vegeta essentially becoming the new Krillin now. At least if you're aware of the story in the original dragonball, you can see there is training arc coming up now where Vegeta and Goku are going to train under Whis like Goku and Krillin used to do under Kame Sennin. I expect unorthodox methods by Whis and Goku constantly one upping Vegeta every step they take. Razz

I'm all down with basically rehashing plot mechanics, as long as it's fun to watch. One major element in Saiyan saga and Namek saga, was the strongest guy, Goku never being available to help out. Either due to being dead, in a spaceship or in a healing chamber. I hope Toriyama heavily goes back to these kinds of plot devices and just gets over it not being original. You could really notice in the Cell saga, Toriyama was grasping straws with this mechanism, a heart virus (really?) and then just basically chosing not to fight and letting Gohan handle it. That was always my biggest quelm with the whole Cell saga. It felt much less serious that way because they could've just all gotten into the fight too. They just chose to respect Cell's rules. *scratching my head*...
Then the Buu saga was just a big mess. Razz

Skatter #*&@%! View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Thursday, July 09, 2015

TRL wrote : I was so excited after the epic Frieza saga but slam the voices, the music it was all such a drop in quality from Funimation. I guess the belgian channel got ocean dub cheaper or something and then after that they never even bothered to air the Buu saga. I remember it was still being dubbed by funimation at the time. So that's when I learned to use Kazaa. Razz



Heh, well, everyone is entitled to their own opinion for sure! But my hope comes from Kai's dubbing, since if we get an Ocean Dub, it means there will already be a Funi Dub, so you can keep your constipated Piccolo/Vegeta/Yamucha/The other 500 characters Sabat voiced that sound exactly alike, and I can get my sinister sounding Piccolo and Vegeta back! We both win! In the words of that oh-so popular meme... Why not both? Razz

TRL View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Thursday, July 09, 2015

Actually, come to think of it, I was exposed to major parts of the ocean dub during the Saiyan saga and Namek saga.
It must've been only somewhere in the Frieza saga that Funimation took over because I distinctively remember Faulconer's tracks for the Spirit Bomb and Super Saiyan transformation. Hmmm strange I don't know what was going on there.

I actually really appreciated the ocean dub for those early saga's and I do remember Vegeta, Goku and Krillin having a different voice. Maybe it was just in the Cell saga that the quality really droppped or something. I just really remember the music being bad. And not having Vegeta's final flash theme and Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 transformation by Faulconer is just a straight down shame.

Just compare these 2 scenes and notice the dramatic impact of the music. It makes the funimation dub that more enjoyable to watch. Never a dull moment. Just spine tingling inducing. Also in Ocean's dub android 16 sounds like a good guy. Also the circus music. Its all coming back Razz



Skatter #*&@%! View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Thursday, July 09, 2015

TRL wrote : Maybe it was just in the Cell saga that the quality really droppped or something. I just really remember the music being bad. And not having Vegeta's final flash theme and Gohan's Super Saiyan 2 transformation by Faulconer is just a straight down shame.



The quality is noticeably worse from the end of Frieza Saga on(in the Ocean Dub, I'm not making a slam against Funimation), most noticeably on the music front, you're 100% right. Though I should say I would've always preferred the Japanese tracks to Faulconer's since those are the ones I'm familiar with more-no small part thanks to Zielan. In fact, it's just those couple of voice actors that are still "on par" with the original run of the Ocean Dub if I'm being honest. I just pine for the "good ol' days" Razz

In fact, the only part of the clips you linked that I thought was superior in the Ocean Dub was the voice of Vegeta. Trunks sounds like he's reading his lines directly from the script-I'll give it to Funi that Eric Vale has been an excellent Trunks for the most part. That said, I'd endure the bad music and the bad Trunks as long as I don't have to listen to Sabat provide voices for 50 people, each sounding fairly identical and uninspiring.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LMDk1WC5Vjc

https://youtu.be/lEN9gxZkmoM?t=37


Joking aside, my hope is that IF there's an Ocean Dub of Super, they feel the same way that Brad did, and realize that there's no reason to recreate a new musical score, as what is there is adequately satisfactory. After all the original run of Ocean Dub did use a lot of the Japanese tracks, especially in the movies. It'd really help Super feel more like the Dragon Ball Z I remembered and loved. If they did this, it's squash the criticism above about music, and aside from not having Peter Kalamis voicing Goku, all would be nearly right again in DBZLand in the mind of Skatter.

Anyhow, sorry to derail into that, but hopefully I get what I want and you get what you want, and we're all happy Razz
Plus if we get a good quality selection of Ocean Dub voicecasts, maybe Arnold and I can eventually do that voice pack we always wanted to, since I'd love to hear the OD voicecast in a Dragon Ball Z game-even if I was the only person that ever used them Razz


TRL wrote : That was always my biggest quelm with the whole Cell saga. It felt much less serious that way because they could've just all gotten into the fight too. They just chose to respect Cell's rules. ...
Then the saga was just a big mess. Razz



Don't forget that Vegeta could've ended Cell if he hadn't shucked the character development he received on Namek the moment his hair turned golden Razz Prince of all Saiyans? Prince of Fools! Razz

TRL wrote : Maybe at the same time a threat is coming to earth too which makes the earthlings left behind having to hold down the fort. It would have to be a significantly less powerful threat to give them a chance. But then if it's a less powerful enemy and at the same time the "real" fight is going on in the new universe. Will we even care?



I wanted to address this earlier but hit submit instead of preview!

Your question at the end: "Will we even care?" is what makes Dragon Ball Z really hard for me to retain an interest in. We have some really great and unique characters that aren't relevant anymore because they simply aren't powerful enough to be. And we have some characters that you just bang your head on a desk everytime they do something because of their idiotic notion of pride or warrior spirit, but they're relevant because they're strong enough to be.

It'd be really hard for Dragon Ball Z to "course correct" on that front, because so much has already been established that flies well in the opposite direction-it'd take Dragon Ball Z and turn it into something else. One Piece is one that comes to mind in making sure even their "weak" characters are meaningful and that you still care about them, even if you have to care through Luffy's eyes-although I PROMISE I'm not trying to derail into One Piece vs. Dragon Ball Z, because there's already more than one thread that did that, I'm just pointing out a small, limited-context example that shows that you can have characters of all strengths and be emotionally invested in all of them even when the "Goku" of the story is around.

TRL View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Thursday, July 09, 2015

I never felt the stakes where ever that high in One piece though. But yeah maybe Toriyama has learned something from Oda by this time. The student teaches the master sorta thing. Smile


I have to admit, Ocean's Saiyan saga Vegeta is down right epic. Piccolo too. Fitting them into the Funimation dub wouldn't that be something? Gohan, Krillin and Goku I could go either way. The rest are probably all superior in funimation's dub.
Though I don't think Sabbat is that bad that he needs replacing, but I could really dig it this way too. It's true that Piccolo and Vegeta sound too similar.


Wow this is really a trip down memory lane, because I haven't seen the ocean dub since watching it all for the first time on tv. Years later when I rewatched the Saiyan saga and Namek saga, after watching all of the cell saga, Buu saga and original dragonball by funimation, I watched the funimation version without realising I once saw the ocean. Hehe maybe a little watching project arises. Smile

Skatter #*&@%! View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Thursday, July 09, 2015

TRL wrote : I never felt the stakes where ever that high in One piece though.



I don't know that I really conveyed what I wanted to say well, and I also didn't watch the subbed episodes, only the dubbed ones, so I'm really ignorant on the subject, there just seems to be a greater sense of strength from them all banding together, and that really gets overshadowed in Dragon Ball Z-I mean the pinnacle of friendship in Dragon Ball Z WAS Goku's transformation to Super Saiyan, so it's DEFINITELY present, just perhaps that it takes a back seat in a major way usually.

Still, Super can hopefully find some creative ways to incorporate someone that isn't a Saiyan without being a straight up comedy device, and if it does, it'll score major points with me.

TRL wrote : Gohan, Krillin and Goku I could go either way.



I'd still pick OD's Krillin and Goku, but I'm growing more accustomed to colleen clinkenbeard as Gohan from the Kai dub. But your idea of combining the two is something I'd always wanted to do for ZEQ2Lite at one point, giving people the option to choose or mix and match by selecting the VA you wanted(Funi/Ocean/Japanese Original/Custom-since there are other dubs in other languages, as well as fan-dubs like TFS!), but there's just no way (for me) to get clean rips of the Ocean Dub cast, plus Goku as of Cell Saga had four different VAs.

TRL wrote :
Though I don't think Sabbat is that bad that he needs replacing, but I could really dig it this way too. It's true that Piccolo and Vegeta sound too similar.



That's the problem-he's in everything, and in Dragon Ball Z he IS everything, and he is the man of a thousand voices-each more similar than the last! (bad joke! Razz) I could've probably accepted him as one character-I'd have preferred VAs with richer voices tackle Piccolo and Vegeta, but he was pretty good as Yamucha, since he's just a normal sounding guy:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-eaCRYd_4ro

I will give him that I love him as Armstrong in Full Metal Alchemist(And Brotherhood), but that's such a cornball character that his voice sort of lends itself to the cheese factor that's been passed down the Armstrong line FOR GENERATIONS!!!!


TRL wrote : Hehe maybe a little watching project arises. Smile



Start with Deadzone!

TRL View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Thursday, July 09, 2015

Skatter wrote :

TRL wrote : Hehe maybe a little watching project arises. Smile



Start with Deadzone!



Oooh all of the early movies too. That's been ages.
Now I'll just have to find them all in the ocean dub. That might be the hardest part.

DBZkrisfhugz View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Sunday, July 12, 2015

Grega wrote :

yeah its called fil-ler. Get used to it ^^



the Fil-ler is the Anime? or the Manga?

Grega Perpetual Traveler View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, July 13, 2015

DBZkrisfhugz wrote :

Grega wrote :

yeah its called fil-ler. Get used to it ^^



the Fil-ler is the Anime? or the Manga?



Anime. At least to my knowledge.

That said what the heck did they get to cask King Kai. His animation suggests screaming, but the tone of his voice is just in the "I'm bored" style.

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, July 13, 2015

>Grega

Sing with me !

L-O-D-S OF E-M-O-N-E

What's that spell ?

LODSAMONEY!

Domitjen The Champ View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, August 10, 2015

dragonball super episode 5 (Goku vs bill) animation and art style discussion => Go!

I have never seen such bad animation in my life, at times I was thinking someone made a fan made Dragon Ball Z parody on youtube.

Zeth The Admin View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, August 11, 2015

It was odd that half the attacks thrown had no motion lines, atypical sounds, and no "hold" for emphasis (even the misses need these), but the problem isn't the quality of the animation. It's that they even EXIST.

Once you start getting to Super Saiyan states and beyond, Dragon Ball Z is almost all heavy-duty "ZWEE" fighting. It's mostly one teleport mêlée sequence after another. It's nice that they tried to diversify the fight sequence with actual martial-arts-esque maneuvers, but it just made Goku look underpowered and unnatural.

The animations were plenty bearable. Art-wise, most things are pretty solid. The biggest visual qualm is that they've decided to scale the inking/outlines of characters 10 times when the camera is up close -- exactly something Dragon Ball Z (and most anime) does NOT do. Ironically, this was an visual bug with early fatboy-based outlines in ZEQ2 before we made their size fixed based on distance.

While I appreciate the Faulconer-guitar-influenced Super Saiyan 3 transformation music, there's a big problem with how the Saiyan states are playing out functionally. As it stands by Beerus' "perception" and by how the visuals are shown, we're barely seeing above a Kaioken-level-standard of movement, mêlée, energy attacks, and overall impact.

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, August 12, 2015

Yeah, you could have said "that's stuff". Laughing

najeeb My Sir View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, September 01, 2015

for the first time I'm actually enjoying Japanese score on Dragon Ball Z errr super

The latest episode showing Vegeta going berserk just isn't the same without that piano though Laughing , if you know what I mean

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ct8nnRcEz7A


my personal take is , the whole new lloyd levels are kind of pushing it , I know gt isn't very popular among people here BUT the only thing they did right I think was the Super Saiyan 4 transformation , it kind of went with the whole Super Saiyan Oozaru legend and then molded into its own thing. It made sense both design and logic wise .

LegendarySS4 View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Sunday, October 25, 2015

I liked this week's episode (episode 16).

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Thursday, October 29, 2015

>LegendarySS4

You can't be serious. Smile

Grega Perpetual Traveler View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Thursday, October 29, 2015

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : >LegendarySS4

You can't be serious. Smile



I also kind of liked it *intense laughter*

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Thursday, October 29, 2015

>Grega

How is that possible ?!!


!!!

SuperSayianSomethinGohan View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Friday, October 30, 2015

So far, the art after Goku comes back from King Kai's planet is good. By far though, I thought Goku vs Beerus, and Vegeta Super Saiyan 2 were incredibly bad.




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