Content
ZEQ2-Lite Problems
Author | Message |
---|---|
Eagle The Purpose |
Saturday, August 01, 2015If I ever actually get to it (Probably won't while working on this by myself, would have to wait until after I bring others in on this, if I ever get that far...), I would like to have an actual open world map, yes.
|
Zeth The Admin |
Saturday, August 01, 2015As for the closed development, it's a wise decision. I hope you won't have the same problems as ZEQ2-Lite during the development period..
|
Eagle The Purpose |
Sunday, August 02, 2015>Zeth
|
Zeth The Admin |
Sunday, August 02, 2015As for the problems, I was referring to the clans trash and all the bad information that was spreading since the beginning.
|
Eagle The Purpose |
Sunday, August 02, 2015>Zeth
|
Zeth The Admin |
Sunday, August 02, 2015I never stated these are developmental problems. But they do have an effect on the project and its development.
When testing, since the communication isn't a good point of the project, and that peoples are lazy to do some researches, they are making assumptions on everything and claim these as facts, spreading bad information, goals and nature of the project to the newcomers. Seeing that the online (seen by them as the main part of ZEQ2-Lite) is left to rot and doesn't even has rules at the beginning, peoples are setting up their own and that's how the actual situation took place.
|
Eagle The Purpose |
Monday, August 03, 2015Development of ZEQ2/ZEQ2-lite is very much a non-public, closed process. Despite ZEQ2-lite itself being open-source now, when a project team was/is active, it's a very tightly controlled internal process.
ZEQ2-lite's current iteration of the project was essentially "set free" and, as such, really has little obligation or importance.
Doing things for the sake of appealing/catering to users online, a community, or a fanbase has never been a project goal or aim.
The problem here is your perception of the situation. All of these points you bring up are insignificant in the gander scheme of things. What non-developers think, say, or do is irrelevant to what ZEQ2 is or what its future holds.
Even though I expect to pick things up on development in the future (in a general way), you completely misgauge priorities and importance as they stand.
|
SSJGnash |
Friday, August 07, 2015If I may interrupt, I just wanted to ask if the master servers are still going? |
SuperSayianSomethinGohan |
Friday, August 07, 2015If I may interrupt, I just wanted to ask if the master servers are still going?
|
SSJGnash |
Friday, August 07, 2015SuperSayianSomethinGohan wrote :If I may interrupt, I just wanted to ask if the master servers are still going?
|
Eagle The Purpose |
Wednesday, August 12, 2015>SuperSayianSomethinGohan
|
Eagle The Purpose |
Sunday, August 16, 2015>Mima
|
Mima The Disciple |
Sunday, August 16, 2015Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Everyone in the community (the real one. It shouldn't even be precised, but with some individuals..), have their own opinion about ZEQ2-Lite and what it is. But all of these are joining on some points, this is my theory: I agree to some extent with that you've said here. Let me elaborate a bit though.
|
Eagle The Purpose |
Sunday, August 16, 2015A common thing between ZEQ2 and ZEQ2-Lite is that for both projects, peoples are wanting the same. It's just that these two have different goals (officially) and contributors' mentality/level of motivation.
|
Mima The Disciple |
Monday, August 17, 2015Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : I find it too bad that ZEQ2-Lite is not considered a bit more important than what it is. Peoples place their hopes on it, but what they are searching is in fact elsewhere, with a restricted and selective access, functioning in conditions not suiting everyone.. It should also prepare the potential recruits for the main development, and not be that free and scattered, leading to nothing. ZEQ2-Lite is still important to some of us, but we just can't work on it either 1) alone or 2) anymore. Ioquake3 is too hectic for some, and others just don't want to get their hands dirty (including me) with ioquake3 when they can learn more things about Unity/Unreal/Whatever.
|
Eagle The Purpose |
Monday, August 17, 2015ZEQ2-Lite is still important to some of us, but we just can't work on it either 1) alone or 2) anymore. Ioquake3 is too hectic for some, and others just don't want to get their hands dirty (including me) with ioquake3 when they can learn more things about Unity/Unreal/Whatever.
ZEQ2-Lite has been in the hands of its community for a while now, and if anyone wanted to do something official they should have only asked for SVN access. It's that simple.
You don't see MDave around much, but I'm sure that if you sent him a message he'd respond. Same with Brad.
I still moderate the forums when I get some time, and I almost always idle in the chat.
If someone really wants to dig into ioquake3 and the code of ZEQ2-Lite, they can, but it's not easy.
Why? Because that one was MEANT to be played.
I agree, communication is the key to any success. But we have said what the goal of ZEQ2lite and ZEQ2 were, and we keep saying it, but some people just don't want to see it that way. Which is fine still! Because if they see it as a game, they can take it upon themselves and work on it until it is playable.
|
Mima The Disciple |
Monday, August 17, 2015Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : 1) That's why better ties between the members should be established, making the project more friendly to everyone, less cold, scattered and abandoned.. As I have suggested once, a multi-channel real time communication system attached to the forum's index page would be of a good help already. But this, alone, is still not enough, this task of making a better communication in the community needs a solid beginning, with bunch of changes everywhere. Easier communication is always desirable, but it's a bit problematic now, when most of the experienced individuals visit the forums once a month or even less. the biggest problem is that most of them are used to these forums being game-oriented. Of course, if anyone really wanted to contact someone, they can come to me and I'll see what I can do about it, hah. That's why I'm still here, after all!
Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : There's some things to take in mind about that. Hah, information on ZEQ2lite and ZEQ2? But we have a huge post on the main page about that! It's funny how most guys forget that the main page exists. And it's main for a reason! But maybe we could give a big post somewhere to clarify.
Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Or at least, I never really tried.. Try it! The sky is the limit when the will is that of steel.
Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : I know, and I'm grateful to them for that, but not only them, to all the experienced members that are still here to help others and share their knowledge when asked. I'm a bit sad this sharing (mostly demands) is not happening more often, though... That sadness is caused by them having other responsibilities too though. But they will always answer a call for help/guidance. Either PM me or them directly. But if they were here all the time, wouldn't their time be better spent continuing this ZEQ2lite and working on it as well as helping others? But anyway, whenever someone needs ANY help, they can even just post it in the Discussion forum, and someone will answer. Or I'll tell someone more experienced to take a look if they had missed it.
Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Mmh, yes I saw that, most of the time I come to the IRC by curiosity, I find you idling there and sometimes with a certain "SirlagZ". These moments seem to be the most active of the chat actually I guess. *super intense laughter* Yes, most of the time it's me and SirLagz there, who I'm not sure I know. Hah you can always say hi! I'm nobody special, I talk just like anyone else if I'm by my PC.
Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Well, I didn't even know that. I find it pretty lacking since it goes against everything else that has been told, and it doesn't advance things much.. I was mildly exaggerating, none of the ZEQ2lite iterations were meant to be played but the most playable one is Public Beta 1. It's rather simple really. It had a score board, and the characters were close to being balanced. Which means you could have technically held tournaments and matches.
Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Anyway, even with some explanations given, peoples don't want to understand, and prefer considering it as a game.. *sigh* That is the biggest problem in communication. People believe it's a game. We tell them it's not. They get angry and throw tantrums. That's not how it works. Sure, if someone wants it to be game, it can be! They can play! But then they forfeit their right to ask for things to be fixed if they don't want to help in any way possible. They need to accept that it's up to them. Not us.
|
Eagle The Purpose |
Monday, August 17, 2015Easier communication is always desirable, but it's a bit problematic now, when most of the experienced individuals visit the forums once a month or even less. the biggest problem is that most of them are used to these forums being game-oriented. Of course, if anyone really wanted to contact someone, they can come to me and I'll see what I can do about it, hah. That's why I'm still here, after all!
As for your point two, I agree, and we had an idea to move ZEQ2lite to Unity, but we were really undermanned. Not many people were ready to get their hands dirty, they only wanted to get the end product. And that's not how it's supposed to go. People didn't realize that it needs a lot more than just wishing to have something done. But, fear not. Not all is lost. There are people working and learning about Unity. And when they get experienced enough, they might help out on this new iteration of ZEQ2, which is a project in Unity.
Hah, information on ZEQ2lite and ZEQ2? But we have a huge post on the main page about that! It's funny how most guys forget that the main page exists. And it's main for a reason! But maybe we could give a big post somewhere to clarify.
Try it! The sky is the limit when the will is that of steel
That sadness is caused by them having other responsibilities too though. But they will always answer a call for help/guidance. Either PM me or them directly. But if they were here all the time, wouldn't their time be better spent continuing this ZEQ2lite and working on it as well as helping others? Smile But anyway, whenever someone needs ANY help, they can even just post it in the Discussion forum, and someone will answer. Or I'll tell someone more experienced to take a look if they had missed it.
Yes, most of the time it's me and SirLagz there, who I'm not sure I know. Hah you can always say hi! I'm nobody special, I talk just like anyone else if I'm by my PC. Smile
That is the biggest problem in communication. People believe it's a game. We tell them it's not. They get angry and throw tantrums. That's not how it works. Sure, if someone wants it to be game, it can be! They can play! But then they forfeit their right to ask for things to be fixed if they don't want to help in any way possible. They need to accept that it's up to them. Not us.
|
Mima The Disciple |
Tuesday, August 18, 2015An individual being used to something doesn't mean he/she is totally comfortable with it and doesn't want changes for a better state/situation. Also, the whole community should be taken in mind, not just the experienced members. True, but our own comfort zones are sometimes bound to be expanded. The whole community is taken into account, everyone that is part of this community. And those who just want to play are a part of this community, but they aren't really important. If they are just waiting for the end product, they aren't important. They are a part of the community, but they aren't important in the end run. This community is based on knowledge, gaining knowledge, and learning new things, pushing development boundaries. Those who aren't doing that aren't even supposed to be here, apart from Lin the Junk forum if they wanted. The communication problem has always been present, yet when I entered this community (I was someone wanting to play ZEQ2lite at that time) there was much more communication, there were many others talking about development, not just few guys. What changed? Easy. The communication method. Most experienced individuals use other ways of communicating between each other exactly because the forums were starting to lose their primary objective some time ago (which is my fault for not being a bit more strict when moderating). So now people communicate via Skype, Hangouts, and other ways. Most of use are using a few standardized ways of communicating, yet some of us still use IRC. I use IRC to this day in more channels than just #ZEQ2. So whoever would like to help out, or learn about other projects, or even start their own ZEQ2/Lite iteration (Unity, Unreal, Ioquake3, whatever) they can always find more help not only here but in more places. They just have to ask, since if we were to post most places publicly people would still come and complain how ZEQ2lite is not done.
We can't provide a complete product that quick, nor is the intention, but the base is more likely to be the thing to do at first. Imagine the same kind of base as the actual ZEQ2-Lite under Unity. Tons less constraints, easier and more efficient ways to get something than on Quake 3, newer techniques, hundred to thousands more possibilities etc.. Just with the same kind of base ! Now, imagine with one made for Unity. I don't think it can even be described with words... One was started. It was just postponed because people didn't have enough interest. But it was started and it still is alive, although in hiatus. If you want to work on that, you should ask Brad to join that project.
If peoples want something, they will have to get their hand dirty to reach it anyway, otherwise they can continue to hope and scratch their balls. The only thing we can do to interest the most individuals is to provide that base. It's more interesting for them than starting from scratch. We can't make it more interesting than it is. Game development while fun is still WORK and people tend to never put those two words together (fun work). Furthermore, even though there are mature people here (not talking about ages), the majority of guys here are still not mature enough to pursue anything. Again, not talking about ages. I know a twelve year old that took up coding and by the time he was 17 he was working in HTML for some guys online, making more money than me, and I was 21 at that moment. So to extend my point, those guys that just aren't ready for development aren't important. I mean that in the best way possible, because I don't say that they shouldn't be here. They should, they should ask questions, they should talk, they should do whatever they like! But one thing they shouldn't do is complain. And because of those complaints, most of those experienced guys moved on either to different projects or their own ways of making ZEQ2lite, which is their "dream" too.
Not a lot know about the SVN and even less can interact with it's contents. So, it's not that simple. It is! Ask Brad for Unity SVN access if you're really up to working on that, but bear in mind that ZEQ2Unity should be taken seriously hah.
It's just that I'm not really comfortable with it yet and don't have any subject to discuss, that would lead to awkward moments.. 'x) Haha, you can just say hi! Trust me, #ZEQ2 is a "free" channel, any subject is okay! Even just saying hi! But if you don't feel comfortable with it, you shouldn't do anything that makes you feel like that! Forums are there for that exact reason (among other reasons hah).
|
Eagle The Purpose |
Thursday, August 20, 2015And those who just want to play are a part of this community, but they aren't really important.
I was someone wanting to play ZEQ2lite at that time
The communication problem has always been present, yet when I entered this community (I was someone wanting to play ZEQ2lite at that time) there was much more communication
people would still come and complain how ZEQ2lite is not done.
I can see your idea working but it still would need some kind of a stepping stone in between. Most guys have got used to other ways of communicating. So until they returned, people would need to find them elsewhere.
One was started. It was just postponed because people didn't have enough interest. But it was started and it still is alive, although in hiatus. If you want to work on that, you should ask Brad to join that project.
We can't make it more interesting than it is.
And because of those complaints, most of those experienced guys moved on either to different projects or their own ways of making ZEQ2lite, which is their "dream" too.
It's true that the more project advances, the more popular it will be. And as it gets more popular, more experienced people will see it, come and work on it.
But working in Ioquake3 is just too tedious for anyone to work in. I mean sure, there might be some that are willing to work on our existing base, but most would just start new in Unity/Unreal/Whatever and make their own versions of ZEQ2lite. Some of us are working towards an end goal of making ZEQ2 again, not ZEQ2lite, but that's a long way from here. As Brad once said, ZEQ2 would need developers in Super Saiyan 2 form. Most of us are still learning Kaioken techinque.
It is! Ask Brad for Unity SVN access if you're really up to working on that, but bear in mind that ZEQ2Unity should be taken seriously hah.
Zeth's "passive" only because other project take priority now, and besides, he is the one (wish MDave) that made the base we have here. He would prefer working in Unity I think, than to dig into ioquake3 again, which is just too hectic.
Most of us can do what we can, but what helps most is just to learn, to prosper, and some day, we can all come together and make that "dream" of ours a reality.
Word Filter really works in strange ways, hah, nobody really has any control over it. It's got a mind of its own. Razz
|
Mima The Disciple |
Tuesday, August 25, 2015Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : If it is the case, I would call this part the limbos of ZEQ2-Lite. Nothing flattering. Perhaps. But it's more because of their mentality. Look at it this way (another Dragon Ball Z analogy coming up!):
Who didn't at the beginning.. Back in 2012 (september I if I recall), my brother showed me this as a game, and I considered it this way even when I started modding around october 2013. But I have learned to take some things in consideration and seeing everything differently. I have now a goal, and won't leave before realizing it. I know, it was the beginning of the project, it's "golden age", the contrary would be surprising. Heh, sometimes I'm quite sad and angry against myself to be so young and skip things like ZEQ2(/-Lite). But there's things we can't control.. I came here in 2010 so I wasn't around when ZEQ2 was being worked on either. And I wish that I have, because it sounded amazing. That's one of the reasons I started learning. To be able to advance myself enough to help on ZEQ2, which was the ultimate goal for me for a few years, until I learned that we can have that but even MORE if we really tried. Having a goal is good, and having a goal means not giving up, which is commendable. But don't let your goal make you blind to other amazing things (as it did for me a few years ago) that can happen.
This is most likely a communication problem. A simple text on the main page isn't enough to spread an information, it should now be obvious. True. But look at this as well. We are having a big discussion here, and anyone that would be bothered to read it would know exactly where ZEQ2lite is heading and what it's about. Most people tend to avoid these discussions because frankly "too long; didn't read".. Which is just lazy. And helping lazy people is alright, but if they are too lazy to read this then they really should find other forums because this one ENCOURAGES discussions that are well-formed, concise (even if not small), and above all else, fruitful when it comes to new knowledge.
You mean someone have to gather everyone here to then begin changes? Mmh.. Definitely not a task for me.. ' Ah no, I wasn't trying to pin this task on you, hah. I was merely saying if we want that, something similar would have to be done. Many people have just moved on. I'd suggest asking Aravind if he'd like more help with his project (which is shaping up to be very similar to ZEQ2-lite (in Unity), and by helping him you'd still get a base for your own project if the need for it was still there. And Aravind has other places where he talks with other developers, so he'd probably be willing to let you in on it.
I don't hide that I'm tempted to ask, but it is simply not the time to. It's way too soon. Also, I have started a similar project which I am more comfortable with for now. Once I get well advanced on it, I would like to compare and share my works to the main development. But as I said, it's way too soon for anything, I'm not even sure to keep it up, tomorrow is made of another things, and we can't always predict them.. And this is EXACTLY why Brad started ZEQ2lite (if I remember correctly). So that people wouldn't be alone when learning. That is probably the ultimate goal he had in mind when he started ZEQ2lite (if it's not, I'm sorry I remember it differently, Brad), to help people learn since he had to learn it all by himself and he doesn't want people to go through that, but rather help them along the way and make the learning process much more fast and painless. And that's why I'm still suggesting going to him and letting him help you even more than now, hah. Trust me, he isn't a boogeyman! He likes helping people. A lot.
Peoples interest will most likely be affected by the presentation. Also, if you want to attract peoples and mount a team/open source, you are quite forced to go toward the public, and not the reverse. I don't say it can't work the way it is actually (proof with the progress), but it won't work the same. I agree that it would need a better presentation. The problem with that is still the "OH MY GOODNESS it's ioquake3! Nooo get it away from me!". That being said, you are quite correct when you say that it is meant to go toward the public. And it did go! When it became completely open sourced, Brad, MDave, William, and others said: Here's everything, you can ask us about anything, but you'll have to work, not us. And almost nobody saw that, all they saw were new transformations, new attacks, and new type of "gameplay"... And that is where everyone's motivation took a serious drop. That's why we have these boards. People can play ZEQ2lite as much as they want, but on these boards we tend to still stay development-oriented. Even if it's just developing addons. Even just changing colors! Anything is a start, and everything is encouraged as long as it can help one prosper.
It's quite sad that freely spilled complaints are dividing us. I see most going off ZEQ2-Lite mainly because of a lack of interest. They just lose motivation for it (forwarded by few factors which are known to everyone..). I don't say it's bad to move to another projects, at the contrary, but those choices are not always wanted at the beginning. ZEQ2(/-Lite) could be better than how it is actually, with more control over certain things, it is possible to improve it on some aspects. True. Most of us still want to see ZEQ2lite or ZEQ2 at its prime, but most of us just aren't ready to start working on those ourselves. Personally I still want to learn a ton of things before I even consider working on ZEQ2(Lite). But learning them here in ioquake3 would be counter-productive a bit because in the end we'd be using other engine, and we'd just make our own, new and improved base. I know that Brad still wants to see ZEQ2 in the air, but he knows that if that project were to be brought to the frontlines again, he would need some serious manpower for it.
This kind of "other iteration" I'm actually working on (besides ZEQ2-Lite), was originally meant to, pretty much, be a reproduction the same base as ZEQ2-Lite under the Unity engine (but going more forward ZEQ2's concepts which are near of what I want it to be), to erase most of the constraints of Quake 3/the actual ZEQ2-Lite and assure easier, newer and more efficient ways to develop this "dream_reakizatorRC3" (peoples would also be familiar with this base if they worked on ZEQ2-Lite already). It was also meant to make me gather enough experience on this engine to possibly help ZEQ2 (in the case my help would be accepted :*laughing out loud*: ), because I know that I will probably never finish this one for some reasons, and I can't open a full project with too much things to manage, so, I would already have a certain knowledge about it to help on another projects. You started a Unity project, Aravind started a Unity project, Gigirs started a Unity project. If all of you guys were to come together and work on all of those, every single realization would happen, and most importantly all of you would learn enough so that you could approach Brad and say. Hey! We want to work on ZEQ2. All of us! Look at how many of us there are! Let's make design documents, make drill teams, make a real development community and take this head on! Trust me, he wouldn't say no.
I find it interesting how you have put Dragon Ball Z terms as level of knowledge, I'm now really intrigued where I am in this "power level board". :*laughing out loud*: Hah I can't answer that, I'm not the one who made that analogy in the first place. But actually, that might be a good idea. Maybe we can make a certain function on the forums that track people's work and increase their "stats"... Hmmm..
I was talking about ZEQ2-Lite, not ZEQ2. And as I said, it's way too soon for me to even think about asking that. Not soon at all! Or if it's soon for ZEQ2, you can ask to work on something in Unity. Trust me, capable and willing people are always a good addition to ANY project. And by working in Unity you'd have much more time to learn and get knowledge for the future (and ZEQ2).
As soon as possible I hope.. Can't wait for that moment. It would also be an occasion to show to the official games developers the power of fans. >: ) Exactly. Official games can be fun for a few minutes, but if enough people come together, and if they have a good idea and good coordination, the sky is the limit.
yeah, I even shared two words with it last year if I recall. How old is he already ? 46 ? Very mysterious entity indeed. Nobody knows how old it is. He's one of the 9 world wonders! It's said to have ascended beyond normal existence. Hah! |
Eagle The Purpose |
Tuesday, August 25, 2015Perhaps. But it's more because of their mentality. Look at it this way (another Dragon Ball Z analogy coming up!):
I came here in 2010 so I wasn't around when ZEQ2 was being worked on either. And I wish that I have, because it sounded amazing. That's one of the reasons I started learning. To be able to advance myself enough to help on ZEQ2, which was the ultimate goal for me for a few years, until I learned that we can have that but even MORE if we really tried. Having a goal is good, and having a goal means not giving up, which is commendable. But don't let your goal make you blind to other amazing things (as it did for me a few years ago) that can happen.
True. But look at this as well. We are having a big discussion here, and anyone that would be bothered to read it would know exactly where ZEQ2lite is heading and what it's about. Most people tend to avoid these discussions because frankly "too long; didn't read".. Which is just lazy. And helping lazy people is alright, but if they are too lazy to read this then they really should find other forums because this one ENCOURAGES discussions that are well-formed, concise (even if not small), and above all else, fruitful when it comes to new knowledge.
Ah no, I wasn't trying to pin this task on you, hah. I was merely saying if we want that, something similar would have to be done. Many people have just moved on. I'd suggest asking Aravind if he'd like more help with his project (which is shaping up to be very similar to ZEQ2-lite (in Unity), and by helping him you'd still get a base for your own project if the need for it was still there. And Aravind has other places where he talks with other developers, so he'd probably be willing to let you in on it.
to help people learn since he had to learn it all by himself and he doesn't want people to go through that
I'm still suggesting going to him and letting him help you even more than now, hah. Trust me, he isn't a boogeyman! He likes helping people. A lot.
The problem with that is still the "OH MY GOODNESS it's ioquake3! Nooo get it away from me!".
That being said, you are quite correct when you say that it is meant to go toward the public. And it did go! When it became completely open sourced, Brad, MDave, William, and others said: Here's everything, you can ask us about anything, but you'll have to work, not us.
And almost nobody saw that, all they saw were new transformations, new attacks, and new type of "gameplay"... And that is where everyone's motivation took a serious drop.
Even if it's just developing addons. Even just changing colors! Anything is a start, and everything is encouraged as long as it can help one prosper.
True. Most of us still want to see ZEQ2lite or ZEQ2 at its prime, but most of us just aren't ready to start working on those ourselves. Personally I still want to learn a ton of things before I even consider working on ZEQ2(Lite). But learning them here in ioquake3 would be counter-productive a bit because in the end we'd be using other engine, and we'd just make our own, new and improved base. I know that Brad still wants to see ZEQ2 in the air, but he knows that if that project were to be brought to the frontlines again, he would need some serious manpower for it.
You started a Unity project, Aravind started a Unity project, Gigirs started a Unity project. If all of you guys were to come together and work on all of those, every single realization would happen, and most importantly all of you would learn enough so that you could approach Brad and say. Hey! We want to work on ZEQ2. All of us! Look at how many of us there are! Let's make design documents, make drill teams, make a real development community and take this head on! Trust me, he wouldn't say no.
Hah I can't answer that, I'm not the one who made that analogy in the first place. But actually, that might be a good idea. Maybe we can make a certain function on the forums that track people's work and increase their "stats"... Hmmm..
Not soon at all! Or if it's soon for ZEQ2, you can ask to work on something in Unity. Trust me, capable and willing people are always a good addition to ANY project. And by working in Unity you'd have much more time to learn and get knowledge for the future (and ZEQ2).
|
Mima The Disciple |
Sunday, August 30, 2015And about the "GIVE ME IMMORTALITY LEL I AM LORD FRIEZA GIVE ME IMMORTALITY!", the Peanut Butter Pete method is most of the time of a good help against it. True. But his problem was that he came here and spammed these boards as well, trying to make everyone succumb to his will unless they "wanted to be spammed". Which is counterproductive in itself.
*laughing out loud*, we have a lot of common points, I would never even have expected that much. Haha people sometimes think that I am a boogeyman too. Which is really absurd, I would never try to come off as someone that I'm not hah. Sometimes people do think that because I moderate the forums they should be afraid. And that's exactly what we're against on these boards. They are much more lenient than some other forums, and we try to keep everything friendly.
As for the last sentence, I have already experienced that (even if I would replace being "blind" by "thirsty" :*laughing out loud*: ), and it's maybe not the end.. Sure, even thirsty is alright here. But yes, what I mean is that ZEQ2lite can be amazing, ZEQ2 will be even more so, but other projects can be fun as well! And some can be quite lucrative when it comes to money, because ZEQ2lite and ZEQ2 can't. Unless well we go around in a different way, but that has been discussed before hah.
But I try to keep a good mood and most importantly try my best for everything I'm at. This is EXACTLY what Brad wants to see in people who would like to learn. Nothing more. He doesn't look for those who have years and years of experience, he is much more on the lookout for those who are willing to push themselves more and more.
At least, with this thread, all the "didn't find anything!" excuses cannot be used anymore. It's just under anyone's eyes. True. Maybe we could even separate our discussion, then sticky it. We'll see how it goes like this for now.
ZEQ2-Lite (the build) was my only help for most of what I have learned until now, and it still the case, sort of. That's not a bad thing per se, but having a helping hand is also amazing. You could ask Aravind to join his project even just to ask questions when you get stuck somewhere. They continually discuss their work, how they do it, etc. Ask Aravind to join it, and he'll tell you where and how. And since Brad is there as well, he'd be able to help you a lot.
I take note, but for now I don't have anything to ask in particular, except maybe about the EV_PAIN implementation in ZEQ2-Lite, where I would like to have some feedback on the code I have shown. He is one of the few who can confirm if it is good or not. Send him a message, you two can discuss it and build on it.
Except that, I just need to improve my skills in what I already know (outside my unity project, which is a whole different thing...). Since everyone else is working in Unity, trust me, I think it would be better to go to either Aravind or Brad, and start working with them. I mean, it's much more efficient to form a bigger group than have 37 smaller one-manned projects. And since everyone is working in Unity, you would have THAT much more feedback.
I agree that quake 3 is far to be the best engine when compared to the new ones (Unity, UE4 etc..). But we have the chance on ZEQ2-Lite to have a base, and most importantly one where pretty much everything can be understood without enormous difficulties and can be fixed/improved by the same manner. It just need time and motivation (and a bit of help for a more efficient progress also *laughing out loud*). I am ready to dig into everything, so, my motivation isn't affected since I have always new things to learn/do (something I don't dislike). And, when I think about the results, it feels even better. While it's true that ZEQ2lite base in ioquake 3 is amazing, the whole code is a bit hectic. There are so many unused systems, there are parts of code that don't work because of some other unknown parts of the code, etc. With Unity, people are striving for simplicity, readability, and most importantly, conciseness yet efficiency. Meaning it's much easier to read Unity code, and much simpler to add/fix things. Trust me, when I say simplicity I mean it. The structure of what Brad and the company are going for is nothing short of amazing since even someone who has never done coding in his life can understand it.
I think that, the more you are open in the development, the more you understand the whole thing (which create a sort of fascination toward it and it's history), and the more you are able to improve it. Agreed. The more you develop and understand, the more motivated you are. But bear in mind that Unity version has history too, and still it's the same history just even more info in it!
The way ZEQ2 is managed remembers me of competitive teams, I have been in one for two years, and I ended being disgusted by the environment.. There's no fun, it's like an IRL job, you are spending full time on something you barely appreciate because of the conditions (it is even affecting your mental stability), and you are not even sure it will be useful and/or you can continue.. Hah I strongly disagree with this. The old iteration of ZEQ2 might have SEEMED like that, but even that wasn't so. The ZEQ2Unity iteration is nothing more than ZEQ2lite-type of environment with a bit more experienced people. There are no super critical deadlines, there are no mental breakdowns. There are no restrictions. ZEQ2Unity is actually very close to ZEQ2Lite development-wise. It doesn't require real competitive teams, and it has no teams whatsoever. It just has people a bit more experienced around it, so that they can work just a bit faster than ZEQ2lite. So, trust me, if you were ever up for it, I'd strongly advise to ask Aravind to join his project or Brad and talk about ZEQ2Unity, and maybe even starting your own project or whatever helps you grow and prosper. And while all of those are super fun, if we could gather round a team of really skilled individuals, and start working on ZEQ2 again, that would be a bit more serious, with deadlines and tasks assigned to specific people. But still there would be no competitive teams, it would be ONE team, working together, and even if someone didn't know how to do something, they could always ask for help.
1. ZEQ2-Lite is full of Quake 3 parts scattered in it's core, presenting every aspects of it like a game.. And giving a false "goal" known as "you hev 2 kel everi1 leul". Public Beta 1 had two main goals (as far as I've understood - if I'm wrong, I hope someone will correct me.) - 1) To let people have a playable demo of the project with a SCOREBOARD that wasn't really working but was still there. 2) To find interested people willing to learn and work on that and other projects. - Now, the second goal was much more important. But the first goal was still there, letting people play if they wanted. When revision 1536 was released, and with it the source code, it was said specifically - Here's everything. Do whatever you want with it, but it's not playable really. If you wish to play, play, but we can't fix everything ourselves. Whoever wants to fix something, they can. If they don't know how, ask anyone! But you'll have to work on this yourselves.
He he, I'm really not comparable with each of them, when they are quite advanced on their projects, I am still at the beginning of the physics programming.. And, even if that vision was possible, as you said for something else, it is not for a near future unfortunately. They weren't born full of Unity knowledge either You should definitely approach one of them if you're willing to work with them. Gigirs has a One Piece project. Aravind a Dragon Ball Z project. So whichever you prefer! As for that vision, everything is possible! Everything and anything! Hah, imagine if all of you guys were to work together on a single project, find out who likes doing what most, and make your own team of developers. Then all of you could just say to Brad what I already told you. He would NOT say no, hah!
Hah I can't answer that, I'm not the one who made that analogy in the first place. But actually, that might be a good idea. Maybe we can make a certain function on the forums that track people's work and increase their "stats"... Hmmm.. This was an idea, but if most people would find this motivating, maybe we could see how to add it. I've got no knowledge of website coding, but I'd be willing to give it a try and see if I can add that. Maybe if not that, just have a simple sticky topic with names of people willing to work and learn, and I could edit it whenever. Or maybe even have stats as titles under the names. We'll see.
And I need some things to prepare/finish before doing such changes in my plans and schedule.. Of course, that still takes precedence over everything! Your time is just that, yours. And everything else is less important than what you need to do. So take your time, these projects aren't going to disappear tomorrow hah. |
Eagle The Purpose |
Sunday, August 30, 2015Unless well we go around in a different way, but that has been discussed before hah.
True. Maybe we could even separate our discussion, then sticky it. We'll see how it goes like this for now.
That's not a bad thing per se, but having a helping hand is also amazing. You could ask Aravind to join his project even just to ask questions when you get stuck somewhere. They continually discuss their work, how they do it, etc. Ask Aravind to join it, and he'll tell you where and how. Smile And since Brad is there as well, he'd be able to help you a lot.
Send him a message, you two can discuss it and build on it.
Since everyone else is working in Unity, trust me, I think it would be better to go to either Aravind or Brad, and start working with them. I mean, it's much more efficient to form a bigger group than have 37 smaller one-manned projects. And since everyone is working in Unity, you would have THAT much more feedback.
While it's true that ZEQ2lite base in ioquake 3 is amazing, the whole code is a bit hectic. There are so many unused systems, there are parts of code that don't work because of some other unknown parts of the code, etc.
Hah I strongly disagree with this. Smile The old iteration of ZEQ2 might have SEEMED like that, but even that wasn't so. The ZEQ2Unity iteration is nothing more than ZEQ2lite-type of environment with a bit more experienced people. There are no super critical deadlines, there are no mental breakdowns. There are no restrictions. ZEQ2Unity is actually very close to ZEQ2Lite development-wise. It doesn't require real competitive teams, and it has no teams whatsoever. It just has people a bit more experienced around it, so that they can work just a bit faster than ZEQ2lite. So, trust me, if you were ever up for it, I'd strongly advise to ask Aravind to join his project or Brad and talk about ZEQ2Unity, and maybe even starting your own project or whatever helps you grow and prosper.
1) To let people have a playable demo of the project with a SCOREBOARD that wasn't really working but was still there.
As for spreading the word, that is still the same problem, but hopefully after our discussion, it'll be a bit more obvious.
Hah, imagine if all of you guys were to work together on a single project, find out who likes doing what most, and make your own team of developers. Then all of you could just say to Brad what I already told you. He would NOT say no, hah! Smile
This was an idea, but if most people would find this motivating, maybe we could see how to add it. I've got no knowledge of website coding, but I'd be willing to give it a try and see if I can add that. Maybe if not that, just have a simple sticky topic with names of people willing to work and learn, and I could edit it whenever. Or maybe even have stats as titles under the names. We'll see.
So take your time, these projects aren't going to disappear tomorrow hah. Smile
|
Mima The Disciple |
Wednesday, September 02, 2015A way to do would be to make a full base without the use of quake, unity etc... engines and make ZEQ2 a mod of this base. It would avoid having problem with the engines developers (in the case they don't accept peoples making money with their engine) and the right owners of Dragon Ball. But, yeah.. It sounds a bit less fun, considering that if there is a non-free beta release, it will need a speed up in the development to not deceive anyone. Plus, there will be two developments in progress with this option (the base, and ZEQ2/else separately). Also, where will the money go ? It's something that needs a lot of thinking and a lot of motivation. But I guess it's been thought and discussed a lot already. If it's not up, it's for good reasons. It's been discussed, but no conclusion or accordance was found so the idea is still in the air, but not fully accepted.
Mmh.. Sometimes it got a bit off topic, so, I don't know if sticking this full discussion will be useful to peoples seeking for information about the project. Hah, it might have gone off topic, but it's still full of VERY useful information. Both of us have made more than a few good points, I hope.
Yep, now I'm back home, I will at look this invitation I got in the middle of the month. If it is still up to date. Just ask Aravind for the information about their whereabouts, or rather where they are conducting discussions and development. As for those squirrels, I remember them as well! They were really pesky, weren't they!
Mmh.. I don't want to make him loose he's time. I hardly understand few parts of the code, so... I know he's busy. But trust me, even on a busy day he'd respond with at least "Hey, I am working on something now, I'll get back to you soon." And then he can help you out!
Yeah, you are right. I will try, and, in the case it's a yes, I hope I won't be too much of a weight for everyone. I'm glad we agree on this! Trust me, nobody can be weighing down others, especially in a LEARNING community! We are all learning new things by helping each other out!
Unity is less technical and more uninformed participator-friendly, making most of the development easier. But yeah, still lots of hours of hard work to get results from your systems. If I'm right (and I might be sorely mistaken), Aravind already has a base set up for ZEDU, which can be expanded upon very much. And the best thing about those few projects is that they all share everything between them.
It's like a level up and a new zone discovered/available. Hah, I'm glad you made this analogy! Let me just expand it a bit! It's exactly like that, entering a new zone. But aren't new zones easier when you have a high level player in your party that can even be completely passive and just offer advice or completely active and aggro everything in the zone?
There's still a command that can display these information. But the score is always at 0. I believe the scoreboard of the Public Beta 1 was to be removed, but wasn't at the time. I'm not sure about 1536, seeing that I have actually had 0 experience "on the servers". I haven't set foot in there more than 3 times in my life. Public Beta 1 scoreboard was broken as well, but it was present. It worked, kind of, but had a few bugs and kinks that were needed to be worked out. Later, it was taken out completely out of the code because of the same reason we are having this discussion hah. It was one more way to show people that ZEQ2lite wasn't a game.
I got two peoples interested into modifying their build for now, but I don't know if they will go far in this way. I think communication and recruitment isn't my cup of tea... :S That's a commendable job! Trust me, finding people on the servers that are willing to learn isn't an easy thing. And don't worry about that not being your cup of tea. Recruiting if need be will be done in an organised way.
Also, I must add that the forums, no, the whole site is maybe even the last location peoples will go, interested or not. That's what I have seen for two years with hundreds of peoples, me included. Huh. It was completely opposite for me. I made an account a few days after I got into this community. Even though my first posts are about "playing in rank wars" and wanting "bigger player rank"... After a while a few people got me interested in animating, and that's where it all started for me.
I've been in two modding teams in ZEQ2-Lite, both have been taken down for reasons everyone know and fear. What happened? I don't think I'm following, hah. What reasons?
You bet it is ! I'm in !!! TAKE MY ZENIS!!!!! :*laughing out loud*: Hah, I remember seeing a list of people with stats next to their names, although I'm not sure where and when. I'm positive that Brad was involved too. Hopefully I'll remember sooner or later. As for the idea itself, we'll see. Some serious thought should be put into it hah.
When it's true they won't disappear, there's still the stress of the time. The time is our worst enemy.... Followed by few other weights, it can make someone take different choices, for the good, or some unfortunate ones... And when you are balanced between both sides, everything takes a bad shape. True that time is a constraint, but in projects such as these, time can be our greatest ally too. These projects are mostly for us to learn more, to get into this world of game-developing. And having enough time to do that can make us mice become men! |