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ZEQ2-Lite Problems

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Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Saturday, August 01, 2015

If I ever actually get to it (Probably won't while working on this by myself, would have to wait until after I bring others in on this, if I ever get that far...), I would like to have an actual open world map, yes.

The one thing about Dragonball Xenoverse that really bugged me was the cramped lack of exploration by forcing you into the Time Patroller hub (and the same goes for pretty much every other Dragon Ball Z game that excluded the ability to actually travel around the planet)... I would very much like to completely eliminate that, and just let you explore the world freely. Dragonball, and Dragonball Z by extension, were suppose to be adventure/fighting genre, but most games only focus on the fighting part, and forget about the adventure part. Granted, much of the adventure part is often touted as little more than gooey insides, but even still, by eliminating the adventure portion entirely, all you're left with for most games is a senseless Street Fighter with Flying knock-off...

But regardless, that's something for much further down the pipeline from where this is at currently (I'm still not even done setting up basic animation support yet for crying out loud), and probably won't even be worked on at all until I open the project up for others to work on it (Probably with only limited access at first, to avoid the pitfalls of "clans" or "players" showing up wondering why nothing works...)...



Totally agree, on every point.

As for the closed development, it's a wise decision. I hope you won't have the same problems as ZEQ2-Lite during the development period..

Zeth The Admin View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Saturday, August 01, 2015

As for the closed development, it's a wise decision. I hope you won't have the same problems as ZEQ2-Lite during the development period..

  • ZEQ2-lite's "development period" is ongoing.
  • There were/are no problems I'm aware of. The existing Quake 3 framework being a design mess doesn't directly relate to ZEQ2-lite's development cycle.

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Sunday, August 02, 2015

>Zeth

You misunderstood my sentence, surely my bad spelling again..

"I hope you won't have the same problems as ZEQ2-Lite during ZOPU's development period"

As for the problems, I was referring to the clans trash and all the bad information that was spreading since the beginning. Surely due to the fact it is considered as a side and secondary project that doesn't worth much attention to it.

Zeth The Admin View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Sunday, August 02, 2015

As for the problems, I was referring to the clans trash and all the bad information that was spreading since the beginning.


Neither of those are developmental problems of the project.
Those are entirely community issues -- insignificant ones at that.

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Sunday, August 02, 2015

>Zeth

I never stated these are developmental problems. But they do have an effect on the project and it's development.

Peoples are discovering ZEQ2-Lite mainly through videos and/or direct experience (these are the two main sources of information peoples will be looking for).

When testing, since the communication isn't a good point of the project, and that peoples are lazy to do some researches, they are making assumptions on everything and claim these as facts, spreading bad information, goals and nature of the project to the newcomers. Seeing that the online (seen by them as the main part of ZEQ2-Lite) is left to rot and doesn't even has rules at the beginning, peoples are setting up their own and that's how the actual situation took place.

Results:

- ZEQ2-Lite is considered as a score based 3D fighter video game.

- The online is being used as such.

- Flaws of the code are making things worse on the servers (even making peoples blame the "creators" for ZEQ2-Lite's actual state, when most don't even know it's an open source..).

- Nobody is aware, not even interested in the development anymore. Just here to play..

- Less chances also for the recruitment to work.

I don't say all of that as assumptions, that's what I "studied" for the few weeks I stayed on the master server and on youtube lately, in parallel of the things I actually still do. I even saw this situation starting again elsewhere (still on the theme of ZEQ2-Lite).

So, I think Shenku did a wise decision by keeping the development closed at first. If the situation is getting better (contribution/community/information), it might be okay and have advantages to make it an open sourced project, but I'm personally a bit skeptical about this idea..

Zeth The Admin View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Sunday, August 02, 2015

I never stated these are developmental problems. But they do have an effect on the project and its development.


Development of ZEQ2/ZEQ2-lite is very much a non-public, closed process. Despite ZEQ2-lite itself being open-source now, when a project team was/is active, it's a very tightly controlled internal process. ZEQ2-lite's current iteration of the project was essentially "set free" and, as such, really has little obligation or importance.

Doing things for the sake of appealing/catering to users online, a community, or a fanbase has never been a project goal or aim.

When testing, since the communication isn't a good point of the project, and that peoples are lazy to do some researches, they are making assumptions on everything and claim these as facts, spreading bad information, goals and nature of the project to the newcomers. Seeing that the online (seen by them as the main part of ZEQ2-Lite) is left to rot and doesn't even has rules at the beginning, peoples are setting up their own and that's how the actual situation took place.


The problem here is your perception of the situation. All of these points you bring up are insignificant in the grander scheme of things. What non-developers think, say, or do is irrelevant to what ZEQ2 is or what its future holds.

Even though I expect to pick things up on development in the future (in a general way), you completely misgauge priorities and importance as they stand.

Here.



And a collapsed version to show you relative scale.

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, August 03, 2015

Development of ZEQ2/ZEQ2-lite is very much a non-public, closed process. Despite ZEQ2-lite itself being open-source now, when a project team was/is active, it's a very tightly controlled internal process.



Are you referring to the pre publication part ? When you and MDave were working on the base of ZEQ2-Lite from ZEQ2(Quake 3) ?

ZEQ2-lite's current iteration of the project was essentially "set free" and, as such, really has little obligation or importance.



To who ? What has more importance actually ?

Doing things for the sake of appealing/catering to users online, a community, or a fanbase has never been a project goal or aim.



I know that already and agree with it, my point when talking about the community is that the main source of individuals containing some potential future devs and contributors is being wasted by the current situation. It affects somehow ZEQ2-Lite.

I also have the impression that since ZEQ2-Lite became an open source, everything was made for peoples to not notice it and "waste their time" on the project..

The problem here is your perception of the situation. All of these points you bring up are insignificant in the gander scheme of things. What non-developers think, say, or do is irrelevant to what ZEQ2 is or what its future holds.



It doesn't affect the project itself, but mostly the workforce, which kind of makes things harder for the development of the product. At the beginning, an open source project has for one of it's goal to appeals the greatest number of individuals, am I right ?

Even though I expect to pick things up on development in the future (in a general way), you completely misgauge priorities and importance as they stand.



I'm glad to hear that. As for me, I can't prioritize more something I don't have knowledge of.

SSJGnash View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Friday, August 07, 2015

If I may interrupt, I just wanted to ask if the master servers are still going?

SuperSayianSomethinGohan View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Friday, August 07, 2015

If I may interrupt, I just wanted to ask if the master servers are still going?



No. It was never meant to be played. And servers are leftovers from the Quake3 engine. Luckily for us, the servers at ioquake shut down or something'. It can be easily fixed (redirecting which master server you are accessing) as there are many different master servers hosting ioquake3 games, but only one or two people are going to host servers on them, on which they rarely do.

SSJGnash View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Friday, August 07, 2015

SuperSayianSomethinGohan wrote :

If I may interrupt, I just wanted to ask if the master servers are still going?



No. It was never meant to be played. And servers are leftovers from the Quake3 engine. Luckily for us, the servers at ioquake shut down or something'. It can be easily fixed (redirecting which master server you are accessing) as there are many different master servers hosting ioquake3 games, but only one or two people are going to host servers on them, on which they rarely do.


okay, thanks. I just wanted to play with someone.

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, August 12, 2015

>SuperSayianSomethinGohan

I don't understand you. You tell that is shouldn't be played, and then give a way to do it ?

Mmh..

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Sunday, August 16, 2015

>Mima

Everyone in the community (the real one. It shouldn't even be precised, but with some individuals..), have their own opinion about ZEQ2-Lite and what it is. But all of these are joining on some points, this is my theory:

- Fun

- Learning

- Improving/pushing limits

- Dreams realization

These four main points are what is giving everyone the motivation to continue on this way (even if some peoples take different ways by the next), but also what is finally defining the project as a whole.

Learning about games development and computer science, Improving/pushing limits of the products and self or global knowledge, this is Fun and also useful (to everyone at the end).

All of that is finally realizing the childhood dream of many (through the project's theme, concepts and audiovisual representation), most importantly, the ones who made the product by a lot of efforts.

If ZEQ2(/-Lite)'s purpose of existence isn't near that, that means I have landed on the wrong place, thought wrong about all of it and should move on to my own project reflecting the spirit or something different..

Anyway, this is just a part of my thoughts concerning this topic of "What is ZEQ2-Lite ?"..

After, I know that it wasn't meant to be continued, but the process is engaged now, and this is an on going development at the end. (and I maintain what I promised, I won't be gone before providing something from myself, useful for the project)

Mima The Disciple View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Sunday, August 16, 2015

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Everyone in the community (the real one. It shouldn't even be precised, but with some individuals..), have their own opinion about ZEQ2-Lite and what it is. But all of these are joining on some points, this is my theory:
- Fun
- Learning
- Improving/pushing limits
- Dreams realization
These four main points are what is giving everyone the motivation to continue on this way (even if some peoples take different ways by the next), but also what is finally defining the project as a whole.

I agree to some extent with that you've said here. Let me elaborate a bit though.

The three aspects you've noted should actually be the same thing. Fun, Learning, Improving oneself. Here, we are looking for individuals that are willing to learn new things, so as to improve themselves and everything around them with new, original, world-changing ideas. New ways of thinking. They have to be open-minded of course. And the most important thing is that it is also fun for them. I would never ask anyone to lets say animate something if they prefer reading a book or playing a game in their spare time. That's the difference between these players that are here and those of us who aren't here to play. For me it's fun to do something more than play a game. It's more fun to experience the process of making something than just seeing it in action.

One thing we agree 100% on is the "dream" aspect. Each and every one of us likes Dragon Ball. And all of us want a perfect representation of it. Some want a cool fighting game. Some want an RPG style. Some don't even want a game but a world where they can just interact with others who like it. But it all comes down to Dragon Ball. So yes, everyone would like ZEQ2 (Note, ZEQ2 not ZEQ2lite), to be just that. A perfect representation of the anime we like. ZEQ2 before 2009 was supposed to be that. But THAT ZEQ2 is just too big for the number of people interested in working on it SERIOUSLY.

The ZEQ2Unity should be a stepping stone for those wanting to work on ZEQ2 and those who just want to experience the end product.

I hope that answered your question at least a bit, and of course we can continue discussing this. I'll move these last two, three posts in your old topic.

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Sunday, August 16, 2015

A common thing between ZEQ2 and ZEQ2-Lite is that for both projects, peoples are wanting the same. It's just that these two have different goals (officially) and contributors' mentality/level of motivation.

ZEQ2 regroups a bunch of experienced and mature developers (I believe some are still learning, as we all have lacks of knowledge in some domains) who work as a team, in a special schedule, showing a quite important and constant progress/efficiency. Obviously, still having fun.

ZEQ2-Lite, taking the remainings of the old and outdated ZEQ2(Quake 3) as it's base, is now (if not from the beginning) a test to spot some individuals with the potential to enter the REAL development. I believe it only has a mean for recruitment, it's content and community being minor priorities to the leaders.

I find it too bad that ZEQ2-Lite is not considered a bit more important than what it is. Peoples place their hopes on it, but what they are searching is in fact elsewhere, with a restricted and selective access, functionning in conditions not suiting everyone.. It should also prepare the potential recruits for the main development, and not be that free and scattered, leading to nothing.

If this is how it is working, it should be said, as it would give a real goal to the members of this community, which I think a lot don't know much about both projects and take ZEQ2-Lite as the current main one. The lack of information is misleading everyone, and that is serving nobody.

*laughing out loud*. It's weird how everything come back to this communication problem.

Anyway, I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking the way I mentioned in my previous post. Smile

Mima The Disciple View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, August 17, 2015

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : I find it too bad that ZEQ2-Lite is not considered a bit more important than what it is. Peoples place their hopes on it, but what they are searching is in fact elsewhere, with a restricted and selective access, functioning in conditions not suiting everyone.. It should also prepare the potential recruits for the main development, and not be that free and scattered, leading to nothing.

If this is how it is working, it should be said, as it would give a real goal to the members of this community, which I think a lot don't know much about both projects and take ZEQ2-Lite as the current main one. The lack of information is misleading everyone, and that is serving nobody.

*laughing out loud*. It's weird how everything come back to this communication problem.

Anyway, I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking the way I mentioned in my previous post. Smile

ZEQ2-Lite is still important to some of us, but we just can't work on it either 1) alone or 2) anymore. Ioquake3 is too hectic for some, and others just don't want to get their hands dirty (including me) with ioquake3 when they can learn more things about Unity/Unreal/Whatever.

ZEQ2-Lite has been in the hands of its community for a while now, and if anyone wanted to do something official they should have only asked for SVN access. It's that simple. But yeah, the "leaders" are out working on different projects because of personal reasons or just because they went to different, more profitable things. If anyone wants to continue coding or working on other fronts they can. It's just that the leaders are here just to guide when needed, nothing more. You don't see MDave around much, but I'm sure that if you sent him a message he'd respond. Same with Brad. They are really the only two leaders this project has ever had. The rest of us have been there for the ride, so to say. I still moderate the forums when I get some time, and I almost always idle in the chat. Whenever someone has a question there I'm there to answer it.

The main problem the "players" don't understand is that ZEQ2-Lite is in THEIR hands just as much as in ours. If they need new master server fix, they have to make it. If they want new attacks, that's easy and they can do it easily. If someone really wants to dig into ioquake3 and the code of ZEQ2-Lite, they can, but it's not easy. The main problem is that most systems are still leftovers from other things or they haven't been even implemented. So many systems are just placeholders, which can be seen in the latest revision.

The one thing that "player" community doesn't understand is that revision 1536 ISN'T the most stable one. 859 is. Or rather Public Beta 1. Why? Because that one was MEANT to be played. 1536 was a stepping stone to show where the project was at that time so that some developers could take it upon themselves and continue working on it.

I agree, communication is the key to any success. But we have said what the goal of ZEQ2lite and ZEQ2 were, and we keep saying it, but some people just don't want to see it that way. Which is fine still! Because if they see it as a game, they can take it upon themselves and work on it until it is playable.

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, August 17, 2015

ZEQ2-Lite is still important to some of us, but we just can't work on it either 1) alone or 2) anymore. Ioquake3 is too hectic for some, and others just don't want to get their hands dirty (including me) with ioquake3 when they can learn more things about Unity/Unreal/Whatever.



1) That's why better ties between the members should be established, making the project more friendly to everyone, less cold, scattered and abandoned.. As I have suggested once, a multi-channel real time communication system attached to the forum's index page would be of a good help already. But this, alone, is still not enough, this task of making a better communication in the community needs a solid beginning, with bunch of changes everywhere.

2) Understandable considering the almost unbeatable constraints of ZEQ2-Lite known at this day (and that some may have problems outside the project).. If everyone prefer learning on newer engines, then, why not moving ZEQ2-Lite on one of those ? I am personally quite sad to loose this advanced base which has still a lot to offer, but there's some more important factors to consider I believe.

ZEQ2-Lite has been in the hands of its community for a while now, and if anyone wanted to do something official they should have only asked for SVN access. It's that simple.



There's some things to take in mind about that.

- Getting information about ZEQ2-Lite is hard. Some may not even know the SVN's existence nor even know what it is.

- Peoples don't come straight at the beginning with a complete knowledge in everything, and learning alone is not making things easier (I can tell since that's what I did. All what I know can be learned in few days/weeks, and it took me 2 years..). With all the things I have learned in 2 years, I can't still do stuff with the SVN's content. *intense laughter*

Or at least, I never really tried..

You don't see MDave around much, but I'm sure that if you sent him a message he'd respond. Same with Brad.



I know, and I'm grateful to them for that, but not only them, to all the experienced members that are still here to help others and share their knowledge when asked. I'm a bit sad this sharing (mostly demands) is not happening more often, though...

I still moderate the forums when I get some time, and I almost always idle in the chat.



Mmh, yes I saw that, most of the time I come to the IRC by curiosity, I find you idling there and sometimes with a certain "SirlagZ". These moments seem to be the most active of the chat actually I guess. *super intense laughter*

(I'm sorry if I don't say anything by the way, I just don't know what to say x) )

If someone really wants to dig into ioquake3 and the code of ZEQ2-Lite, they can, but it's not easy.



heck I know that well, even though I have started editing the code since a few.. 'Very Happy

Why? Because that one was MEANT to be played.



Well, I didn't even know that. I find it pretty lacking since it goes against everything else that has been told, and it doesn't advance things much..

I agree, communication is the key to any success. But we have said what the goal of ZEQ2lite and ZEQ2 were, and we keep saying it, but some people just don't want to see it that way. Which is fine still! Because if they see it as a game, they can take it upon themselves and work on it until it is playable.



I don't like to call ZEQ2(/-Lite) a game, only in it's description, you feel it is different.. Peoples are mostly basing this assumption on the fact ZEQ2-Lite still has parts of Quake 3's gameplay in it, which should have been removed since a long..

Anyway, even with some explanations given, peoples don't want to understand, and prefer considering it as a game.. *sigh*

Mima The Disciple View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, August 17, 2015

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : 1) That's why better ties between the members should be established, making the project more friendly to everyone, less cold, scattered and abandoned.. As I have suggested once, a multi-channel real time communication system attached to the forum's index page would be of a good help already. But this, alone, is still not enough, this task of making a better communication in the community needs a solid beginning, with bunch of changes everywhere.
2) Understandable considering the almost unbeatable constraints of ZEQ2-Lite known at this day (and that some may have problems outside the project).. If everyone prefer learning on newer engines, then, why not moving ZwEQ2lite on one of those ? I am personally quite sad to loose this advanced base which has still a lot to offer, but there's some more important factors to consider I believe.

Easier communication is always desirable, but it's a bit problematic now, when most of the experienced individuals visit the forums once a month or even less. the biggest problem is that most of them are used to these forums being game-oriented. Of course, if anyone really wanted to contact someone, they can come to me and I'll see what I can do about it, hah. That's why I'm still here, after all!

As for your point two, I agree, and we had an idea to move ZEQ2lite to Unity, but we were really undermanned. Not many people were ready to get their hands dirty, they only wanted to get the end product. And that's not how it's supposed to go. People didn't realize that it needs a lot more than just wishing to have something done. But, fear not. Not all is lost. There are people working and learning about Unity. And when they get experienced enough, they might help out on this new iteration of ZEQ2, which is a project in Unity.

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : There's some things to take in mind about that.
- Getting information about ZEQ2-Lite is hard. Some may not even know the SVN's existence nor even know what it is.
- Peoples don't come straight at the beginning with a complete knowledge in everything, and learning alone is not making things easier (I can tell since that's what I did. All what I know can be learned in few days/weeks, and it took me 2 years..). With all the things I have learned in 2 years, I can't still do stuff with the SVN's content. *intense laughter*

Hah, information on ZEQ2lite and ZEQ2? But we have a huge post on the main page about that! It's funny how most guys forget that the main page exists. And it's main for a reason! But maybe we could give a big post somewhere to clarify.

As for learning, nobody is asking anyone to know everything. Smile Having zero knowledge is quite fine as long as the will to learn is strong. It's like an old, wise sage once said: "Do. Or do not. There is no try." Learning new things can be fun as well! Heck, today I came to an agreement with someone to teach me some things about Unity, which I know nothing about. I know next to nothing in Unity, yet I'll soon be learning it from many sides and angles! So the will is everything here.

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Or at least, I never really tried..

Try it! The sky is the limit when the will is that of steel.

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : I know, and I'm grateful to them for that, but not only them, to all the experienced members that are still here to help others and share their knowledge when asked. I'm a bit sad this sharing (mostly demands) is not happening more often, though...

That sadness is caused by them having other responsibilities too though. But they will always answer a call for help/guidance. Either PM me or them directly. But if they were here all the time, wouldn't their time be better spent continuing this ZEQ2lite and working on it as well as helping others? Smile But anyway, whenever someone needs ANY help, they can even just post it in the Discussion forum, and someone will answer. Or I'll tell someone more experienced to take a look if they had missed it.

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Mmh, yes I saw that, most of the time I come to the IRC by curiosity, I find you idling there and sometimes with a certain "SirlagZ". These moments seem to be the most active of the chat actually I guess. *super intense laughter*
(I'm sorry if I don't say anything by the way, I just don't know what to say x) )

Yes, most of the time it's me and SirLagz there, who I'm not sure I know. Hah you can always say hi! I'm nobody special, I talk just like anyone else if I'm by my PC. Smile

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Well, I didn't even know that. I find it pretty lacking since it goes against everything else that has been told, and it doesn't advance things much..

I was mildly exaggerating, none of the ZEQ2lite iterations were meant to be played but the most playable one is Public Beta 1. It's rather simple really. It had a score board, and the characters were close to being balanced. Which means you could have technically held tournaments and matches.

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : Anyway, even with some explanations given, peoples don't want to understand, and prefer considering it as a game.. *sigh*

That is the biggest problem in communication. People believe it's a game. We tell them it's not. They get angry and throw tantrums. That's not how it works. Sure, if someone wants it to be game, it can be! They can play! But then they forfeit their right to ask for things to be fixed if they don't want to help in any way possible. They need to accept that it's up to them. Not us.

I hope this clears even more things hah. Since I can't join the IRC for two days, any questions you (or anyone else has) can ask here. Smile

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Monday, August 17, 2015

Easier communication is always desirable, but it's a bit problematic now, when most of the experienced individuals visit the forums once a month or even less. the biggest problem is that most of them are used to these forums being game-oriented. Of course, if anyone really wanted to contact someone, they can come to me and I'll see what I can do about it, hah. That's why I'm still here, after all!



An individual being used to something doesn't mean he/she is totally comfortable with it and doesn't want changes for a better state/situation. Also, the whole community should be taken in mind, not just the experienced members.

If peoples find an interest into something, they will give it a certain importance. If the community is appealed by the new communication, they will find an interest and give more importance to ZEQ2-Lite.

Better communication (a minimum centered on the project) --> ties between members + more attached to the project --> unity (not the engine *intense laughter*) of the community + maturity + global development --> *explosion of positive points* (I let you imagine the the rest, self-made projections are always the most efficient once ignited)

As for your point two, I agree, and we had an idea to move ZEQ2lite to Unity, but we were really undermanned. Not many people were ready to get their hands dirty, they only wanted to get the end product. And that's not how it's supposed to go. People didn't realize that it needs a lot more than just wishing to have something done. But, fear not. Not all is lost. There are people working and learning about Unity. And when they get experienced enough, they might help out on this new iteration of ZEQ2, which is a project in Unity.



We can't provide a complete product that quick, nor is the intention, but the base is more likely to be the thing to do at first. Imagine the same kind of base as the actual ZEQ2-Lite under Unity. Tons less constraints, easier and more efficient ways to get something than on Quake 3, newer techniques, hundred to thousands more possibilities etc.. Just with the same kind of base ! Now, imagine with one made for Unity. I don't think it can even be described with words...

If peoples want something, they will have to get their hand dirty to reach it anyway, otherwise they can continue to hope and scratch their balls. The only thing we can do to interest the most individuals is to provide that base. It's more interesting for them than starting from scratch.

The thing to remember is, the more the project advances, the more we will get near to the ultimate goal, and the more easy we will be able to reach it, with the help of this more and more perfectionized base.

Actually, ZEQ2(/-Lite) is just stagnating. No communication, no progress, still relying on Quake 3 and suffuring from it's constraints.. It feels dead and like there are no possibilities for it to be saved..

But it can, love the numbers and how much peoples there is for it, if we don't dare to do something, we already have the NO!

As for learning under Unity, what do you think was one of the reasons I began my Unity project ? Smile

Hah, information on ZEQ2lite and ZEQ2? But we have a huge post on the main page about that! It's funny how most guys forget that the main page exists. And it's main for a reason! But maybe we could give a big post somewhere to clarify.

As for learning, nobody is asking anyone to know everything. Smile Having zero knowledge is quite fine as long as the will to learn is strong. It's like an old, wise sage once said: "Do. Or do not. There is no try." Learning new things can be fun as well! Heck, today I came to an agreement with someone to teach me some things about Unity, which I know nothing about. I know next to nothing in Unity, yet I'll soon be learning it from many sides and angles! So the will is everything here.



I reassure you I haven't forgotten about this page, even if I have to say it is quite discrete.. But it is just a small description of ZEQ2(/-Lite) and a quick exposure of the plans for the future. What I meant when saying "information" is information related to the development, like the SVN, things about modding and ZEQ2-Lite contents etc...

Not a lot know about the SVN and even less can interact with it's contents. So, it's not that simple.

__

I'm happy to see someone else interested in unity, ue4 seem to be prefered around here, I was concerned. *intense laughter*

Mmh.. This year and/or the next might be interesting..

Try it! The sky is the limit when the will is that of steel



It doesn't apply in this case. My skills don't permit me to interact in a useful way with the SVN' contents. At least, for now.. I don't want to skip some steps, there's some priorities first.

That sadness is caused by them having other responsibilities too though. But they will always answer a call for help/guidance. Either PM me or them directly. But if they were here all the time, wouldn't their time be better spent continuing this ZEQ2lite and working on it as well as helping others? Smile But anyway, whenever someone needs ANY help, they can even just post it in the Discussion forum, and someone will answer. Or I'll tell someone more experienced to take a look if they had missed it.



By "demands", I meant those who asks about info/advices/help, in a general way.

Yes, most of the time it's me and SirLagz there, who I'm not sure I know. Hah you can always say hi! I'm nobody special, I talk just like anyone else if I'm by my PC. Smile



*ponders*... It's just that I'm not really comfortable with it yet and don't have any subject to discuss, that would lead to awkward moments.. 'x)

That is the biggest problem in communication. People believe it's a game. We tell them it's not. They get angry and throw tantrums. That's not how it works. Sure, if someone wants it to be game, it can be! They can play! But then they forfeit their right to ask for things to be fixed if they don't want to help in any way possible. They need to accept that it's up to them. Not us.



It is unfortunately something we can't change actually. Some of us are reacting differently against this.

Some examples:

Zeth is just passive to anything of this kind, which can be understandable.

Peanut Butter Pete is taking down servers to kill (with hope) this false community and redirect the attention on the development, which can be understandable.

I am trying to change ZEQ2-Lite almost completely to make it more faithful to ZEQ2's concepts (that I approve) and separate it the most from Quake 3 and this "game" naming.

Edit: seriously ?! "Peanut Butter Pete" ?? *rolling on floor laughing*

Mima The Disciple View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, August 18, 2015

An individual being used to something doesn't mean he/she is totally comfortable with it and doesn't want changes for a better state/situation. Also, the whole community should be taken in mind, not just the experienced members.
If peoples find an interest into something, they will give it a certain importance. If the community is appealed by the new communication, they will find an interest and give more importance to ZEQ2-Lite.
Better communication (a minimum centered on the project) --> ties between members + more attached to the project --> unity (not the engine *intense laughter*) of the community + maturity + global development --> *explosion of positive points* (I let you imagine the the rest, self-made projections are always the most efficient once ignited)

True, but our own comfort zones are sometimes bound to be expanded. The whole community is taken into account, everyone that is part of this community. And those who just want to play are a part of this community, but they aren't really important. If they are just waiting for the end product, they aren't important. They are a part of the community, but they aren't important in the end run. This community is based on knowledge, gaining knowledge, and learning new things, pushing development boundaries. Those who aren't doing that aren't even supposed to be here, apart from Lin the Junk forum if they wanted. The communication problem has always been present, yet when I entered this community (I was someone wanting to play ZEQ2lite at that time) there was much more communication, there were many others talking about development, not just few guys. What changed? Easy. The communication method. Most experienced individuals use other ways of communicating between each other exactly because the forums were starting to lose their primary objective some time ago (which is my fault for not being a bit more strict when moderating). So now people communicate via Skype, Hangouts, and other ways. Most of use are using a few standardized ways of communicating, yet some of us still use IRC. I use IRC to this day in more channels than just #ZEQ2. So whoever would like to help out, or learn about other projects, or even start their own ZEQ2/Lite iteration (Unity, Unreal, Ioquake3, whatever) they can always find more help not only here but in more places. They just have to ask, since if we were to post most places publicly people would still come and complain how ZEQ2lite is not done.
I can see your idea working but it still would need some kind of a stepping stone in between. Most guys have got used to other ways of communicating. So until they returned, people would need to find them elsewhere.

We can't provide a complete product that quick, nor is the intention, but the base is more likely to be the thing to do at first. Imagine the same kind of base as the actual ZEQ2-Lite under Unity. Tons less constraints, easier and more efficient ways to get something than on Quake 3, newer techniques, hundred to thousands more possibilities etc.. Just with the same kind of base ! Now, imagine with one made for Unity. I don't think it can even be described with words...

One was started. It was just postponed because people didn't have enough interest. But it was started and it still is alive, although in hiatus. If you want to work on that, you should ask Brad to join that project.

If peoples want something, they will have to get their hand dirty to reach it anyway, otherwise they can continue to hope and scratch their balls. The only thing we can do to interest the most individuals is to provide that base. It's more interesting for them than starting from scratch.
The thing to remember is, the more the project advances, the more we will get near to the ultimate goal, and the more easy we will be able to reach it, with the help of this more and more perfectionized base.

We can't make it more interesting than it is. Game development while fun is still WORK and people tend to never put those two words together (fun work). Furthermore, even though there are mature people here (not talking about ages), the majority of guys here are still not mature enough to pursue anything. Again, not talking about ages. I know a twelve year old that took up coding and by the time he was 17 he was working in HTML for some guys online, making more money than me, and I was 21 at that moment. So to extend my point, those guys that just aren't ready for development aren't important. I mean that in the best way possible, because I don't say that they shouldn't be here. They should, they should ask questions, they should talk, they should do whatever they like! But one thing they shouldn't do is complain. And because of those complaints, most of those experienced guys moved on either to different projects or their own ways of making ZEQ2lite, which is their "dream" too.
It's true that the more project advances, the more popular it will be. And as it gets more popular, more experienced people will see it, come and work on it. That is all true. But working in Ioquake3 is just too tedious for anyone to work in. I mean sure, there might be some that are willing to work on our existing base, but most would just start new in Unity/Unreal/Whatever and make their own versions of ZEQ2lite. Some of us are working towards an end goal of making ZEQ2 again, not ZEQ2lite, but that's a long way from here. As Brad once said, ZEQ2 would need developers in Super Saiyan 2 form. Most of us are still learning Kaioken techinque.

Not a lot know about the SVN and even less can interact with it's contents. So, it's not that simple.

It is! Ask Brad for Unity SVN access if you're really up to working on that, but bear in mind that ZEQ2Unity should be taken seriously hah.

It's just that I'm not really comfortable with it yet and don't have any subject to discuss, that would lead to awkward moments.. 'x)

Haha, you can just say hi! Trust me, #ZEQ2 is a "free" channel, any subject is okay! Even just saying hi! But if you don't feel comfortable with it, you shouldn't do anything that makes you feel like that! Forums are there for that exact reason (among other reasons hah).

Zeth's "passive" only because other project take priority now, and besides, he is the one (wish MDave) that made the base we have here. He would prefer working in Unity I think, than to dig into ioquake3 again, which is just too hectic. Other projects have a bit more compact teams, which helps tremendously. When enough people get to work on ZEQ2(Lite) I'm pretty sure he'll be back in full swing, it was his original idea after all. He'd love to get ZEQ2 done. But that is still in far future for now, like I said.

Most of us can do what we can, but what helps most is just to learn, to prosper, and some day, we can all come together and make that "dream" of ours a reality.

Word Filter really works in strange ways, hah, nobody really has any control over it. It's got a mind of its own. Razz

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Thursday, August 20, 2015

And those who just want to play are a part of this community, but they aren't really important.



If it is the case, I would call this part the limbos of ZEQ2-Lite. Nothing flattering.

I was someone wanting to play ZEQ2lite at that time



Who didn't at the beginning.. Back in 2012 (september I if I recall), my brother showed me this as a game, and I considered it this way even when I started modding around october 2013. But I have learned to take some things in consideration and seeing everything differently. I have now a goal, and won't leave before realizing it.

The communication problem has always been present, yet when I entered this community (I was someone wanting to play ZEQ2lite at that time) there was much more communication



I know, it was the beginning of the project, it's "golden age", the contrary would be surprising.

Heh, sometimes I'm quite sad and angry against myself to be so young and skip things like ZEQ2(/-Lite). But there's things we can't control.. Rolling Eyes

people would still come and complain how ZEQ2lite is not done.



This is most likely a communication problem. A simple text on the main page isn't enough to spread an information, it should now be obvious.

I can see your idea working but it still would need some kind of a stepping stone in between. Most guys have got used to other ways of communicating. So until they returned, people would need to find them elsewhere.



You mean someone have to gather everyone here to then begin changes? Mmh.. Definitely not a task for me.. 'Confused

One was started. It was just postponed because people didn't have enough interest. But it was started and it still is alive, although in hiatus. If you want to work on that, you should ask Brad to join that project.



You talk about the prototype/demo that can be found on the site ? (a bit hidden)

I don't hide that I'm tempted to ask, but it is simply not the time to. It's way too soon. Also, I have started a similar project which I am more comfortable with for now. Once I get well advanced on it, I would like to compare and share my works to the main development. But as I said, it's way too soon for anything, I'm not even sure to keep it up, tomorrow is made of another things, and we can't always predict them..

We can't make it more interesting than it is.



Peoples interest will most likely be affected by the presentation. Also, if you want to attract peoples and mount a team/open source, you are quite forced to go toward the public, and not the reverse. I don't say it can't work the way it is actually (proof with the progress), but it won't work the same.

And because of those complaints, most of those experienced guys moved on either to different projects or their own ways of making ZEQ2lite, which is their "dream" too.



It's quite sad that freely spilled complaints are dividing us. I see most going off ZEQ2-Lite mainly because of a lack of interest. They just loose motivation for it (forwarded by few factors which are known to everyone..). I don't say it's bad to move to another projects, at the contrary, but those choices are not always wanted at the beginning.

ZEQ2(/-Lite) could be better than how it is actually, with more control over certain things, it is possible to improve it on some aspects.

It's true that the more project advances, the more popular it will be. And as it gets more popular, more experienced people will see it, come and work on it.



I was more pointing the easiness of development provided by a more complete base (the "engine in an engine", as I call it), but what you said is also true.

But working in Ioquake3 is just too tedious for anyone to work in. I mean sure, there might be some that are willing to work on our existing base, but most would just start new in Unity/Unreal/Whatever and make their own versions of ZEQ2lite. Some of us are working towards an end goal of making ZEQ2 again, not ZEQ2lite, but that's a long way from here. As Brad once said, ZEQ2 would need developers in Super Saiyan 2 form. Most of us are still learning Kaioken techinque.



Really interesting part and purely true.

For the Quake 3 thing, I know that personally, during the two years modding ZEQ2-Lite, hitting every constraints the head first, trying hardly to fix or going around them, trying to make things the best. But the more I advance, the more hard it gets, obviously.. Meh, it's not those crappy constraints that will bother me anyway. Laughing

This kind of "other iteration" I'm actually working on (besides ZEQ2-Lite), was originally meant to, pretty much, be a reproduction the same base as ZEQ2-Lite under the Unity engine (but going more forward ZEQ2's concepts which are near of what I want it to be), to erase most of the constraints of Quake 3/the actual ZEQ2-Lite and assure easier, newer and more efficient ways to develop this "dream_reakizatorRC3" (peoples would also be familiar with this base if they worked on ZEQ2-Lite already). It was also meant to make me gather enough experience on this engine to possibly help ZEQ2 (in the case my help would be accepted Laughing ), because I know that I will probably never finish this one for some reasons, and I can't open a full project with too much things to manage, so, I would already have a certain knowledge about it to help on another projects.

I find it interesting how you have put Dragon Ball Z terms as level of knowledge, I'm know really intrigued where I am in this "power level board". Laughing

Oh lloyd, I now see a kind of leveling system turned forward development knowledge. Will +9000 Competitiveness +9000

It is! Ask Brad for Unity SVN access if you're really up to working on that, but bear in mind that ZEQ2Unity should be taken seriously hah.



I was talking about ZEQ2-Lite, not ZEQ2. Smile

And as I said, it's way too soon for me to even think about asking that.

Zeth's "passive" only because other project take priority now, and besides, he is the one (wish MDave) that made the base we have here. He would prefer working in Unity I think, than to dig into ioquake3 again, which is just too hectic.



Understandable. But it's pretty sad for everyone to not be able to help there and having only an old and dead like project. (I personally don't complain, I like ZEQ2-Lite the way it is, but still sad to not be able to access the REAL thing more easily)

Most of us can do what we can, but what helps most is just to learn, to prosper, and some day, we can all come together and make that "dream" of ours a reality.



as soon as possible I hope.. Can't wait for that moment. It would also be an occasion to show to the official games developers the power of fans. >: )

Word Filter really works in strange ways, hah, nobody really has any control over it. It's got a mind of its own. Razz



yeah, I even shared two words with it last year if I recall. How old is he already ? 46 ? Very mysterious entity indeed. Wink

Mima The Disciple View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, August 25, 2015

Wh1t34Gl3(SAS) wrote : If it is the case, I would call this part the limbos of ZEQ2-Lite. Nothing flattering.

Perhaps. But it's more because of their mentality. Look at it this way (another Dragon Ball Z analogy coming up!):
Imagine Frieza knew that the Namekian dragon only understood Namekians. Do you think he'd still go around screaming at the dragon "GIVE ME IMMORTALITY LEL I AM LORD FRIEZA GIVE ME IMMORTALITY!"? That's what people around here do. We tell them no, they shouldn't complain about the game as it's not meant to be played, and they keep yelling fix this fix this! And that's not making us prosper in any way.
Then there are some (like yourself) that want to see what they can learn. It doesn't matter if the reason is to learn about game development or just to fix ZEQ2lite and make it playable and into a game. The why's don't matter as long as there's a will. So yes, people that DO want to work/learn/get their hands dirty are more important on THESE boards than those who just want to play. I'm not saying they are more important overall, but on these forums they are.

Who didn't at the beginning.. Back in 2012 (september I if I recall), my brother showed me this as a game, and I considered it this way even when I started modding around october 2013. But I have learned to take some things in consideration and seeing everything differently. I have now a goal, and won't leave before realizing it. I know, it was the beginning of the project, it's "golden age", the contrary would be surprising. Heh, sometimes I'm quite sad and angry against myself to be so young and skip things like ZEQ2(/-Lite). But there's things we can't control.. Rolling Eyes

I came here in 2010 so I wasn't around when ZEQ2 was being worked on either. And I wish that I have, because it sounded amazing. That's one of the reasons I started learning. To be able to advance myself enough to help on ZEQ2, which was the ultimate goal for me for a few years, until I learned that we can have that but even MORE if we really tried. Having a goal is good, and having a goal means not giving up, which is commendable. But don't let your goal make you blind to other amazing things (as it did for me a few years ago) that can happen.

This is most likely a communication problem. A simple text on the main page isn't enough to spread an information, it should now be obvious.

True. But look at this as well. We are having a big discussion here, and anyone that would be bothered to read it would know exactly where ZEQ2lite is heading and what it's about. Most people tend to avoid these discussions because frankly "too long; didn't read".. Which is just lazy. And helping lazy people is alright, but if they are too lazy to read this then they really should find other forums because this one ENCOURAGES discussions that are well-formed, concise (even if not small), and above all else, fruitful when it comes to new knowledge.

You mean someone have to gather everyone here to then begin changes? Mmh.. Definitely not a task for me.. 'Confused

Ah no, I wasn't trying to pin this task on you, hah. I was merely saying if we want that, something similar would have to be done. Many people have just moved on. I'd suggest asking Aravind if he'd like more help with his project (which is shaping up to be very similar to ZEQ2-lite (in Unity), and by helping him you'd still get a base for your own project if the need for it was still there. And Aravind has other places where he talks with other developers, so he'd probably be willing to let you in on it.

I don't hide that I'm tempted to ask, but it is simply not the time to. It's way too soon. Also, I have started a similar project which I am more comfortable with for now. Once I get well advanced on it, I would like to compare and share my works to the main development. But as I said, it's way too soon for anything, I'm not even sure to keep it up, tomorrow is made of another things, and we can't always predict them..

And this is EXACTLY why Brad started ZEQ2lite (if I remember correctly). So that people wouldn't be alone when learning. That is probably the ultimate goal he had in mind when he started ZEQ2lite (if it's not, I'm sorry I remember it differently, Brad), to help people learn since he had to learn it all by himself and he doesn't want people to go through that, but rather help them along the way and make the learning process much more fast and painless. And that's why I'm still suggesting going to him and letting him help you even more than now, hah. Trust me, he isn't a boogeyman! He likes helping people. A lot.

Peoples interest will most likely be affected by the presentation. Also, if you want to attract peoples and mount a team/open source, you are quite forced to go toward the public, and not the reverse. I don't say it can't work the way it is actually (proof with the progress), but it won't work the same.

I agree that it would need a better presentation. The problem with that is still the "OH MY GOODNESS it's ioquake3! Nooo get it away from me!". That being said, you are quite correct when you say that it is meant to go toward the public. And it did go! When it became completely open sourced, Brad, MDave, William, and others said: Here's everything, you can ask us about anything, but you'll have to work, not us. And almost nobody saw that, all they saw were new transformations, new attacks, and new type of "gameplay"... And that is where everyone's motivation took a serious drop. That's why we have these boards. People can play ZEQ2lite as much as they want, but on these boards we tend to still stay development-oriented. Even if it's just developing addons. Even just changing colors! Anything is a start, and everything is encouraged as long as it can help one prosper.

It's quite sad that freely spilled complaints are dividing us. I see most going off ZEQ2-Lite mainly because of a lack of interest. They just lose motivation for it (forwarded by few factors which are known to everyone..). I don't say it's bad to move to another projects, at the contrary, but those choices are not always wanted at the beginning. ZEQ2(/-Lite) could be better than how it is actually, with more control over certain things, it is possible to improve it on some aspects.

True. Most of us still want to see ZEQ2lite or ZEQ2 at its prime, but most of us just aren't ready to start working on those ourselves. Personally I still want to learn a ton of things before I even consider working on ZEQ2(Lite). But learning them here in ioquake3 would be counter-productive a bit because in the end we'd be using other engine, and we'd just make our own, new and improved base. I know that Brad still wants to see ZEQ2 in the air, but he knows that if that project were to be brought to the frontlines again, he would need some serious manpower for it.
ZEQ2lite on the other hand (this one) could probably get some more publicity and then some more people would start working on it, but the biggest problem would be that most people would still see an unfinished GAME with a lot of bugs and say naaaah. Because people tend to jump to conclusions quite fast, hah!

This kind of "other iteration" I'm actually working on (besides ZEQ2-Lite), was originally meant to, pretty much, be a reproduction the same base as ZEQ2-Lite under the Unity engine (but going more forward ZEQ2's concepts which are near of what I want it to be), to erase most of the constraints of Quake 3/the actual ZEQ2-Lite and assure easier, newer and more efficient ways to develop this "dream_reakizatorRC3" (peoples would also be familiar with this base if they worked on ZEQ2-Lite already). It was also meant to make me gather enough experience on this engine to possibly help ZEQ2 (in the case my help would be accepted :*laughing out loud*: ), because I know that I will probably never finish this one for some reasons, and I can't open a full project with too much things to manage, so, I would already have a certain knowledge about it to help on another projects.

You started a Unity project, Aravind started a Unity project, Gigirs started a Unity project. If all of you guys were to come together and work on all of those, every single realization would happen, and most importantly all of you would learn enough so that you could approach Brad and say. Hey! We want to work on ZEQ2. All of us! Look at how many of us there are! Let's make design documents, make drill teams, make a real development community and take this head on! Trust me, he wouldn't say no.

I find it interesting how you have put Dragon Ball Z terms as level of knowledge, I'm now really intrigued where I am in this "power level board". :*laughing out loud*:
Oh lloyd, I now see a kind of leveling system turned forward development knowledge. Will +9000 Competitiveness +9000

Hah I can't answer that, I'm not the one who made that analogy in the first place. But actually, that might be a good idea. Maybe we can make a certain function on the forums that track people's work and increase their "stats"... Hmmm..

I was talking about ZEQ2-Lite, not ZEQ2. Smile And as I said, it's way too soon for me to even think about asking that.

Not soon at all! Or if it's soon for ZEQ2, you can ask to work on something in Unity. Trust me, capable and willing people are always a good addition to ANY project. And by working in Unity you'd have much more time to learn and get knowledge for the future (and ZEQ2).

As soon as possible I hope.. Can't wait for that moment. It would also be an occasion to show to the official games developers the power of fans. >: )

Exactly. Official games can be fun for a few minutes, but if enough people come together, and if they have a good idea and good coordination, the sky is the limit.

yeah, I even shared two words with it last year if I recall. How old is he already ? 46 ? Very mysterious entity indeed. Wink

Nobody knows how old it is. He's one of the 9 world wonders! It's said to have ascended beyond normal existence. Hah!

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Tuesday, August 25, 2015

Perhaps. But it's more because of their mentality. Look at it this way (another Dragon Ball Z analogy coming up!):
Imagine Frieza knew that the Namekian dragon only understood Namekians. Do you think he'd still go around screaming at the dragon "GIVE ME IMMORTALITY LEL I AM LORD FRIEZA GIVE ME IMMORTALITY!"? That's what people around here do. We tell them no, they shouldn't complain about the game as it's not meant to be played, and they keep yelling fix this fix this! And that's not making us prosper in any way.
Then there are some (like yourself) that want to see what they can learn. It doesn't matter if the reason is to learn about game development or just to fix ZEQ2lite and make it playable and into a game. The why's don't matter as long as there's a will. So yes, people that DO want to work/learn/get their hands dirty are more important on THESE boards than those who just want to play. I'm not saying they are more important overall, but on these forums they are.



I understand.

And about the "GIVE ME IMMORTALITY LEL I AM LORD FRIEZA GIVE ME IMMORTALITY!", the Peanut Butter Pete method is most of the time of a good help against it. Laughing

I came here in 2010 so I wasn't around when ZEQ2 was being worked on either. And I wish that I have, because it sounded amazing. That's one of the reasons I started learning. To be able to advance myself enough to help on ZEQ2, which was the ultimate goal for me for a few years, until I learned that we can have that but even MORE if we really tried. Having a goal is good, and having a goal means not giving up, which is commendable. But don't let your goal make you blind to other amazing things (as it did for me a few years ago) that can happen.



*laughing out loud*, we have a lot of common points, I would never even have expected that much. Very Happy

As for the last sentence, I have already experienced that (even if I would replace being "blind" by "thirsty" Laughing ), and it's maybe not the end..

But I try to keep a good mood and most importantly try my best for everything I'm at. Smile

True. But look at this as well. We are having a big discussion here, and anyone that would be bothered to read it would know exactly where ZEQ2lite is heading and what it's about. Most people tend to avoid these discussions because frankly "too long; didn't read".. Which is just lazy. And helping lazy people is alright, but if they are too lazy to read this then they really should find other forums because this one ENCOURAGES discussions that are well-formed, concise (even if not small), and above all else, fruitful when it comes to new knowledge.



At least, with this thread, all the "didn't find anything!" excuses cannot be used anymore. It's just under anyone's eyes. Laughing

Ah no, I wasn't trying to pin this task on you, hah. I was merely saying if we want that, something similar would have to be done. Many people have just moved on. I'd suggest asking Aravind if he'd like more help with his project (which is shaping up to be very similar to ZEQ2-lite (in Unity), and by helping him you'd still get a base for your own project if the need for it was still there. And Aravind has other places where he talks with other developers, so he'd probably be willing to let you in on it.



He already had let me in the development discussion, last year if I recall. But I didn't have a lot of time. (and today, I'm not using this program anymore)

As for the development at the time, it was quite different than what we know on ZEQ2-Lite, after, I don't know the actual build of the project, so, I can't say much..

to help people learn since he had to learn it all by himself and he doesn't want people to go through that



Too bad, I did too. *intense laughter*
ZEQ2-Lite (the build) was my only help for most of what I have learned until now, and it still the case, sort of.

I'm still suggesting going to him and letting him help you even more than now, hah. Trust me, he isn't a boogeyman! He likes helping people. A lot.



I take note, but for now I don't have anything to ask in particular, except maybe about the EV_PAIN implementation in ZEQ2-Lite, where I would like to have some feedback on the code I have shown. He is one of the few who can confirm if it is good or not.

Except that, I just need to improve my skills in what I already know (outside my unity project, which is a whole different thing...).

The problem with that is still the "OH MY GOODNESS it's ioquake3! Nooo get it away from me!".



I agree that quake 3 is far to be the best engine when compared to the new ones (Unity, UE4 etc..). But we have the chance on ZEQ2-Lite to have a base, and most importantly one where pretty much everything can be understood without enormous difficulties and can be fixed/improved by the same manner. It just need time and motivation (and a bit of help for a more efficient progress also *laughing out loud*).

I am ready to dig into everything, so, my motivation isn't affected since I have always new things to learn/do (something I don't dislike). And, when I think about the results, it feels even better. Smile

I think that, the more you are open in the development, the more you understand the whole thing (which create a sort of fascination toward it and it's history), and the more you are able to improve it.

That being said, you are quite correct when you say that it is meant to go toward the public. And it did go! When it became completely open sourced, Brad, MDave, William, and others said: Here's everything, you can ask us about anything, but you'll have to work, not us.



I like this sentence, looks like a challenge, and I love seeing it that way. >: )

And almost nobody saw that, all they saw were new transformations, new attacks, and new type of "gameplay"... And that is where everyone's motivation took a serious drop.



Maybe a reminder (like an announce) would have maintained a bit more the mentality and the motivation of the beginning.

Even if it's just developing addons. Even just changing colors! Anything is a start, and everything is encouraged as long as it can help one prosper.



I know, even if I have still some difficulties with it. Rolling Eyes

But rare are the newcomers who come on the forums, being advised for a visit or not. It's just not enough appealing the way it is I believe.

True. Most of us still want to see ZEQ2lite or ZEQ2 at its prime, but most of us just aren't ready to start working on those ourselves. Personally I still want to learn a ton of things before I even consider working on ZEQ2(Lite). But learning them here in ioquake3 would be counter-productive a bit because in the end we'd be using other engine, and we'd just make our own, new and improved base. I know that Brad still wants to see ZEQ2 in the air, but he knows that if that project were to be brought to the frontlines again, he would need some serious manpower for it.
ZEQ2lite on the other hand (this one) could probably get some more publicity and then some more people would start working on it, but the biggest problem would be that most people would still see an unfinished GAME with a lot of bugs and say naaaah. Because people tend to jump to conclusions quite fast, hah!



I find that "searching for the elite" is killing the overall a bit for ZEQ2. ZEQ2-Lite is much more open, much more convivial, free (I could continue until tomorrow if not more..). The way ZEQ2 is managed remembers me of competitive teams, I have been in one for two years, and I ended being disgusted by the environment.. There's no fun, it's like an IRL job, you are spending full time on something you barely appreciate because of the conditions (it is even affecting your mental stability), and you are not even sure it will be useful and/or you can continue.. :\

As for the "game" thing, I can see two main sources of the misleading already:

1. ZEQ2-Lite is full of Quake 3 parts scattered in it's core, presenting every aspects of it like a game.. And giving a false "goal" known as "you hev 2 kel everi1 leul".

2. Not enough spread information about what it really is. Since everything is limited to the site/forum; it is to be expected that peoples are defining it that way, helped by what is shown by the build.

You started a Unity project, Aravind started a Unity project, Gigirs started a Unity project. If all of you guys were to come together and work on all of those, every single realization would happen, and most importantly all of you would learn enough so that you could approach Brad and say. Hey! We want to work on ZEQ2. All of us! Look at how many of us there are! Let's make design documents, make drill teams, make a real development community and take this head on! Trust me, he wouldn't say no.



He he, I'm really not comparable with each of them, when they are quite advanced on their projects, I am still at the beginning of the physics programming.. Embarassed

And, even if that vision was possible, as you said for something else, it is not for a near future unfortunately.

Hah I can't answer that, I'm not the one who made that analogy in the first place. But actually, that might be a good idea. Maybe we can make a certain function on the forums that track people's work and increase their "stats"... Hmmm..



Thanks, I just broke my keyboard by drooling over it..


Laughing

Not soon at all! Or if it's soon for ZEQ2, you can ask to work on something in Unity. Trust me, capable and willing people are always a good addition to ANY project. And by working in Unity you'd have much more time to learn and get knowledge for the future (and ZEQ2).



That's why I still can't bring anything to ZEQ2-Lite in two years of learning ? *intense laughter*

And I need some things to prepare/finish before doing such changes in my plans and schedule..

Mima The Disciple View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Sunday, August 30, 2015

And about the "GIVE ME IMMORTALITY LEL I AM LORD FRIEZA GIVE ME IMMORTALITY!", the Peanut Butter Pete method is most of the time of a good help against it.

True. But his problem was that he came here and spammed these boards as well, trying to make everyone succumb to his will unless they "wanted to be spammed". Which is counterproductive in itself.

*laughing out loud*, we have a lot of common points, I would never even have expected that much.

Haha people sometimes think that I am a boogeyman too. Which is really absurd, I would never try to come off as someone that I'm not hah. Sometimes people do think that because I moderate the forums they should be afraid. And that's exactly what we're against on these boards. They are much more lenient than some other forums, and we try to keep everything friendly.

As for the last sentence, I have already experienced that (even if I would replace being "blind" by "thirsty" :*laughing out loud*: ), and it's maybe not the end..

Sure, even thirsty is alright here. But yes, what I mean is that ZEQ2lite can be amazing, ZEQ2 will be even more so, but other projects can be fun as well! And some can be quite lucrative when it comes to money, because ZEQ2lite and ZEQ2 can't. Unless well we go around in a different way, but that has been discussed before hah.

But I try to keep a good mood and most importantly try my best for everything I'm at.

This is EXACTLY what Brad wants to see in people who would like to learn. Nothing more. He doesn't look for those who have years and years of experience, he is much more on the lookout for those who are willing to push themselves more and more. Smile

At least, with this thread, all the "didn't find anything!" excuses cannot be used anymore. It's just under anyone's eyes.

True. Maybe we could even separate our discussion, then sticky it. We'll see how it goes like this for now.

ZEQ2-Lite (the build) was my only help for most of what I have learned until now, and it still the case, sort of.

That's not a bad thing per se, but having a helping hand is also amazing. You could ask Aravind to join his project even just to ask questions when you get stuck somewhere. They continually discuss their work, how they do it, etc. Ask Aravind to join it, and he'll tell you where and how. Smile And since Brad is there as well, he'd be able to help you a lot.

I take note, but for now I don't have anything to ask in particular, except maybe about the EV_PAIN implementation in ZEQ2-Lite, where I would like to have some feedback on the code I have shown. He is one of the few who can confirm if it is good or not.

Send him a message, you two can discuss it and build on it.

Except that, I just need to improve my skills in what I already know (outside my unity project, which is a whole different thing...).

Since everyone else is working in Unity, trust me, I think it would be better to go to either Aravind or Brad, and start working with them. I mean, it's much more efficient to form a bigger group than have 37 smaller one-manned projects. And since everyone is working in Unity, you would have THAT much more feedback.

I agree that quake 3 is far to be the best engine when compared to the new ones (Unity, UE4 etc..). But we have the chance on ZEQ2-Lite to have a base, and most importantly one where pretty much everything can be understood without enormous difficulties and can be fixed/improved by the same manner. It just need time and motivation (and a bit of help for a more efficient progress also *laughing out loud*). I am ready to dig into everything, so, my motivation isn't affected since I have always new things to learn/do (something I don't dislike). And, when I think about the results, it feels even better.

While it's true that ZEQ2lite base in ioquake 3 is amazing, the whole code is a bit hectic. There are so many unused systems, there are parts of code that don't work because of some other unknown parts of the code, etc. With Unity, people are striving for simplicity, readability, and most importantly, conciseness yet efficiency. Meaning it's much easier to read Unity code, and much simpler to add/fix things. Trust me, when I say simplicity I mean it. The structure of what Brad and the company are going for is nothing short of amazing since even someone who has never done coding in his life can understand it.

I think that, the more you are open in the development, the more you understand the whole thing (which create a sort of fascination toward it and it's history), and the more you are able to improve it.

Agreed. The more you develop and understand, the more motivated you are. But bear in mind that Unity version has history too, and still it's the same history just even more info in it! Smile

The way ZEQ2 is managed remembers me of competitive teams, I have been in one for two years, and I ended being disgusted by the environment.. There's no fun, it's like an IRL job, you are spending full time on something you barely appreciate because of the conditions (it is even affecting your mental stability), and you are not even sure it will be useful and/or you can continue..

Hah I strongly disagree with this. Smile The old iteration of ZEQ2 might have SEEMED like that, but even that wasn't so. The ZEQ2Unity iteration is nothing more than ZEQ2lite-type of environment with a bit more experienced people. There are no super critical deadlines, there are no mental breakdowns. There are no restrictions. ZEQ2Unity is actually very close to ZEQ2Lite development-wise. It doesn't require real competitive teams, and it has no teams whatsoever. It just has people a bit more experienced around it, so that they can work just a bit faster than ZEQ2lite. So, trust me, if you were ever up for it, I'd strongly advise to ask Aravind to join his project or Brad and talk about ZEQ2Unity, and maybe even starting your own project or whatever helps you grow and prosper. And while all of those are super fun, if we could gather round a team of really skilled individuals, and start working on ZEQ2 again, that would be a bit more serious, with deadlines and tasks assigned to specific people. But still there would be no competitive teams, it would be ONE team, working together, and even if someone didn't know how to do something, they could always ask for help.

1. ZEQ2-Lite is full of Quake 3 parts scattered in it's core, presenting every aspects of it like a game.. And giving a false "goal" known as "you hev 2 kel everi1 leul".

Public Beta 1 had two main goals (as far as I've understood - if I'm wrong, I hope someone will correct me.) - 1) To let people have a playable demo of the project with a SCOREBOARD that wasn't really working but was still there. 2) To find interested people willing to learn and work on that and other projects. - Now, the second goal was much more important. But the first goal was still there, letting people play if they wanted. When revision 1536 was released, and with it the source code, it was said specifically - Here's everything. Do whatever you want with it, but it's not playable really. If you wish to play, play, but we can't fix everything ourselves. Whoever wants to fix something, they can. If they don't know how, ask anyone! But you'll have to work on this yourselves.
As for spreading the word, that is still the same problem, but hopefully after our discussion, it'll be a bit more obvious.

He he, I'm really not comparable with each of them, when they are quite advanced on their projects, I am still at the beginning of the physics programming.. And, even if that vision was possible, as you said for something else, it is not for a near future unfortunately.

They weren't born full of Unity knowledge either Razz You should definitely approach one of them if you're willing to work with them. Gigirs has a One Piece project. Aravind a Dragon Ball Z project. So whichever you prefer! As for that vision, everything is possible! Everything and anything! Hah, imagine if all of you guys were to work together on a single project, find out who likes doing what most, and make your own team of developers. Then all of you could just say to Brad what I already told you. He would NOT say no, hah! Smile

Hah I can't answer that, I'm not the one who made that analogy in the first place. But actually, that might be a good idea. Maybe we can make a certain function on the forums that track people's work and increase their "stats"... Hmmm..

This was an idea, but if most people would find this motivating, maybe we could see how to add it. I've got no knowledge of website coding, but I'd be willing to give it a try and see if I can add that. Maybe if not that, just have a simple sticky topic with names of people willing to work and learn, and I could edit it whenever. Or maybe even have stats as titles under the names. We'll see.

And I need some things to prepare/finish before doing such changes in my plans and schedule..

Of course, that still takes precedence over everything! Your time is just that, yours. And everything else is less important than what you need to do. So take your time, these projects aren't going to disappear tomorrow hah. Smile

Eagle The Purpose View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Sunday, August 30, 2015

Unless well we go around in a different way, but that has been discussed before hah.



A way to do would be to make a full base without the use of quake, unity etc... engines and make ZEQ2 a mod of this base. It would avoid having problem with the engines developers (in the case they don't accept peoples making money with their engine) and the right owners of Dragon Ball.

But, yeah.. It sounds a bit less fun, considering that if there is a non-free beta release, it will need a speed up in the development to not deceive anyone. Plus, there will be two developments in progress with this option (the base, and ZEQ2/else separately). Also, where will the money go ? It's something that needs a lot of thinking and a lot of motivation. But I guess it's been thought and discussed a lot already. If it's not up, it's for good reasons.

True. Maybe we could even separate our discussion, then sticky it. We'll see how it goes like this for now.



Mmh.. Sometimes it got a bit off topic, so, I don't know if sticking this full discussion will be useful to peoples seeking for information about the project.

That's not a bad thing per se, but having a helping hand is also amazing. You could ask Aravind to join his project even just to ask questions when you get stuck somewhere. They continually discuss their work, how they do it, etc. Ask Aravind to join it, and he'll tell you where and how. Smile And since Brad is there as well, he'd be able to help you a lot.



Yep, now I'm back home, I will at look this invitation I got in the middle of the month. If it is still up to date. Rolling Eyes

*laughing out loud*, when I think about ZED-you development chat, it remembers me this squirrels invasion we had. (the team might remember it, most importantly Zielan Razz)

Send him a message, you two can discuss it and build on it.



Mmh.. I don't want to make him loose he's time. I hardly understand few parts of the code, so...

I need to get more experience and read the code again.

Since everyone else is working in Unity, trust me, I think it would be better to go to either Aravind or Brad, and start working with them. I mean, it's much more efficient to form a bigger group than have 37 smaller one-manned projects. And since everyone is working in Unity, you would have THAT much more feedback.



Yeah, you are right. I will try, and, in the case it's a yes, I hope I won't be too much of a weight for everyone.

While it's true that ZEQ2lite base in ioquake 3 is amazing, the whole code is a bit hectic. There are so many unused systems, there are parts of code that don't work because of some other unknown parts of the code, etc.



Ha ha, I have even seen some "what the heck is up with this system anyway ?" stuff in the commentaries of the code. Laughing

I can almost understand what the precedent coders have endured with it.

Unity is less technical and more uninformed participator-friendly, making most of the development easier. But yeah, still lots of hours of hard work to get results from your systems. Rolling Eyes

Hah I strongly disagree with this. Smile The old iteration of ZEQ2 might have SEEMED like that, but even that wasn't so. The ZEQ2Unity iteration is nothing more than ZEQ2lite-type of environment with a bit more experienced people. There are no super critical deadlines, there are no mental breakdowns. There are no restrictions. ZEQ2Unity is actually very close to ZEQ2Lite development-wise. It doesn't require real competitive teams, and it has no teams whatsoever. It just has people a bit more experienced around it, so that they can work just a bit faster than ZEQ2lite. So, trust me, if you were ever up for it, I'd strongly advise to ask Aravind to join his project or Brad and talk about ZEQ2Unity, and maybe even starting your own project or whatever helps you grow and prosper.



Sounds interesting. But still I need some more experience before even consider asking. I'm like, near 0 at the moment. 'Smile

ZEQ2-Lite could teach me the basics of the basics, but I need to be well familiarized with this new engine and learn much more about development in general.

It's like a level up and a new zone discovered/available. Rolling Eyes

1) To let people have a playable demo of the project with a SCOREBOARD that wasn't really working but was still there.



There's still a command that can display these information. But the score is always at 0. I believe the scoreboard of the Public Beta 1 was to be removed, but wasn't at the time.

As for spreading the word, that is still the same problem, but hopefully after our discussion, it'll be a bit more obvious.



I tried even today on an hidden server, but peoples still have the same reception. "what is he talking about ? this is a game !! He doesn't know what he is talking about! *intense laughter*" "I don't care, I just want to play" "I want to learn peoples to fight, to have fun" "I don't care about the bugs being fixed" "I don't care about the "project"" "Wanna make a clan ?" (this last got a special treatment from me Rolling Eyes )

Really disappointing.

I got two peoples interested into modifying their build for now, but I don't know if they will go far in this way.

I think communication and recruitment isn't my cup of tea... :S

Also, I must add that the forums, no, the whole site is maybe even the last location peoples will go, interested or not. That's what I have seen for two years with hundreds of peoples, me included.

And a little example with myself, I have made my account on these boards 4 months after I started modding. I didn't even frequent the site and it's community before, all was done on moddb. I don't even remember what pushed me to make an account here, but now I realize, it is surely one of the best places to discuss and learn about the project. How this message can be spread, I don't know...

Hah, imagine if all of you guys were to work together on a single project, find out who likes doing what most, and make your own team of developers. Then all of you could just say to Brad what I already told you. He would NOT say no, hah! Smile



That's pretty much what I imagined and still imagine for ZEQ2-Lite and it's possible "sequel"/2.0 under Unity or the real ZEQ2-Unity. This vision is dreamed by a lot here also, but I don't think everyone is ready or really want to get into that. I've been in two modding teams in ZEQ2-Lite, both have been taken down for reasons everyone know and fear. If it was just for a short period but everyone continue their way and maybe hope another cooperation, it would be okay, but in these cases, it was total motivation loss for most and developments stopped. Sad.

As for me, I would like to give it another try, hoping I'm not going to be taken into this spiral of problems myself.


This was an idea, but if most people would find this motivating, maybe we could see how to add it. I've got no knowledge of website coding, but I'd be willing to give it a try and see if I can add that. Maybe if not that, just have a simple sticky topic with names of people willing to work and learn, and I could edit it whenever. Or maybe even have stats as titles under the names. We'll see.



You bet it is ! I'm in !!! TAKE MY ZENIS!!!!! Laughing

So take your time, these projects aren't going to disappear tomorrow hah. Smile



This sentence has made a tilt in my head. Mmh.. When it's true they won't disappear, there's still the stress of the time. The time is our worst enemy.... Followed by few other weights, it can make someone take different choices, for the good, or some unfortunate ones... And when you are balanced between both sides, everything takes a bad shape.

Mima The Disciple View user's profile Send private message

Reply with quote Wednesday, September 02, 2015

A way to do would be to make a full base without the use of quake, unity etc... engines and make ZEQ2 a mod of this base. It would avoid having problem with the engines developers (in the case they don't accept peoples making money with their engine) and the right owners of Dragon Ball. But, yeah.. It sounds a bit less fun, considering that if there is a non-free beta release, it will need a speed up in the development to not deceive anyone. Plus, there will be two developments in progress with this option (the base, and ZEQ2/else separately). Also, where will the money go ? It's something that needs a lot of thinking and a lot of motivation. But I guess it's been thought and discussed a lot already. If it's not up, it's for good reasons.

It's been discussed, but no conclusion or accordance was found so the idea is still in the air, but not fully accepted. Smile

Mmh.. Sometimes it got a bit off topic, so, I don't know if sticking this full discussion will be useful to peoples seeking for information about the project.

Hah, it might have gone off topic, but it's still full of VERY useful information. Both of us have made more than a few good points, I hope.

Yep, now I'm back home, I will at look this invitation I got in the middle of the month. If it is still up to date.

Just ask Aravind for the information about their whereabouts, or rather where they are conducting discussions and development. Razz As for those squirrels, I remember them as well! They were really pesky, weren't they!

Mmh.. I don't want to make him loose he's time. I hardly understand few parts of the code, so...

I know he's busy. But trust me, even on a busy day he'd respond with at least "Hey, I am working on something now, I'll get back to you soon." And then he can help you out! Smile

Yeah, you are right. I will try, and, in the case it's a yes, I hope I won't be too much of a weight for everyone.

I'm glad we agree on this! Trust me, nobody can be weighing down others, especially in a LEARNING community! Smile We are all learning new things by helping each other out!

Unity is less technical and more uninformed participator-friendly, making most of the development easier. But yeah, still lots of hours of hard work to get results from your systems.

If I'm right (and I might be sorely mistaken), Aravind already has a base set up for ZEDU, which can be expanded upon very much. Smile And the best thing about those few projects is that they all share everything between them. Smile

It's like a level up and a new zone discovered/available.

Hah, I'm glad you made this analogy! Let me just expand it a bit! It's exactly like that, entering a new zone. But aren't new zones easier when you have a high level player in your party that can even be completely passive and just offer advice or completely active and aggro everything in the zone? Smile

There's still a command that can display these information. But the score is always at 0. I believe the scoreboard of the Public Beta 1 was to be removed, but wasn't at the time.

I'm not sure about 1536, seeing that I have actually had 0 experience "on the servers". I haven't set foot in there more than 3 times in my life. Public Beta 1 scoreboard was broken as well, but it was present. It worked, kind of, but had a few bugs and kinks that were needed to be worked out. Later, it was taken out completely out of the code because of the same reason we are having this discussion hah. It was one more way to show people that ZEQ2lite wasn't a game.

I got two peoples interested into modifying their build for now, but I don't know if they will go far in this way. I think communication and recruitment isn't my cup of tea... :S

That's a commendable job! Trust me, finding people on the servers that are willing to learn isn't an easy thing. And don't worry about that not being your cup of tea. Recruiting if need be will be done in an organised way. Smile

Also, I must add that the forums, no, the whole site is maybe even the last location peoples will go, interested or not. That's what I have seen for two years with hundreds of peoples, me included.

Huh. It was completely opposite for me. I made an account a few days after I got into this community. Even though my first posts are about "playing in rank wars" and wanting "bigger player rank"... After a while a few people got me interested in animating, and that's where it all started for me. Smile

I've been in two modding teams in ZEQ2-Lite, both have been taken down for reasons everyone know and fear.

What happened? I don't think I'm following, hah. What reasons?

You bet it is ! I'm in !!! TAKE MY ZENIS!!!!! :*laughing out loud*:

Hah, I remember seeing a list of people with stats next to their names, although I'm not sure where and when. I'm positive that Brad was involved too. Hopefully I'll remember sooner or later. As for the idea itself, we'll see. Some serious thought should be put into it hah. Smile

When it's true they won't disappear, there's still the stress of the time. The time is our worst enemy.... Followed by few other weights, it can make someone take different choices, for the good, or some unfortunate ones... And when you are balanced between both sides, everything takes a bad shape.

True that time is a constraint, but in projects such as these, time can be our greatest ally too. These projects are mostly for us to learn more, to get into this world of game-developing. And having enough time to do that can make us mice become men!

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