ZEQ2 : Interactive Anime Experience

Sunday, October 21, 2007

Any game making tools for a beginner(free)please reply and link if you can

Sunday, October 21, 2007

'Game making tools' is really a generic phrase. There are complete game making tools which you can get, but they don't really help you learn any concepts as they're so abstract you don't actually do coding and such. If you're wanting one to be able to learn enough to join this team, or any team, then you're going down the wrong track.

If you want to learn to make games you need to learn a programming language. An easy one to start off with for beginners is Python, which you can grab an installation of the software here: http://www.python.org

That's just the software for running software written in python, though, for editing files I'd suggest you using Notepad++: http://notepad-plus.sourceforge.net/uk/site.htm

For getting use of game related features in python, it's probably a good idea to grab PyGame, which is SDL bindings for Python: http://www.pygame.org/

That should be enough to get you started. It's really not as simple as grabbing software and just making a game like that and there's a lot to learn and get your head around, so you really have to stick with it and not expect to make anything straight away.

Sunday, October 21, 2007

I don`t wanna become a pro at coding so I can create great 3D games (I will try but that`s not my goal) it`s just a thing for fun I`ll do my best anyway.Thanks

Monday, October 22, 2007

pygame (SDL more specifically) is not a 3D library (although you can use OpenGL with SDL), it's a 2D library. As far as learning curves go, it's not too steep. It's what I first used when I started learning. I used C++ and SDL though, from what I see pygame is MUCH simpler. Mainly because you can write your code in python, as opposed to C++.

Monday, October 22, 2007

Modding has always been a great avenue to experience "game making". Engines such as source (HL2), and Unreal (UT2004/UT3) are great engines to start off with, especially the latter.

Remember, game making can incorporate a tone of disciplines. Coding as we have noted, but can cover 3d modelling, sound, 2D graphics, or even design. You might wanna decide which one you want to do.

I wouldn't recommend touching any languages these guys listed not because they aren't good, but they are very difficult for beginners, especially if you don't have that kind of mindset. Application programming using VB, C#, or even Delphi is a good place to start general "coding". Check out my post in the DBZHood forums for more detailed description http://dbzhood.com/forums/showpost.php?p=2378&postcount=4.

Monday, October 22, 2007

Thank you Phil you helped me the most I`ll read everything you posted on the HOOD forum

Monday, October 22, 2007

No, Python is actually a lot simpler and easier for beginners than either delphi or visual basic due to it being completely typeless, as well as being a lot more intuitive in it's syntax and forcing good coding practices and readability from the start. Languages such as VB and Delphi do leave you in bad habits when you go on to the 'better' languages and are illogical, unintuitive and, quite simply, horrible to read.

For example, the function shown in the post of yours over at dbzhood would look like this in python:

Far simpler to understand than it's VB or Delphi counterparts, the only things which beginners would stumble upon would be the indentation and having to use the str() function to make a number into a string, but these things teach good practices. The indentation makes sure the code is readable and the need for the str() function shows that numbers are handled differently strings, as they are in computing.

Tuesday, October 23, 2007

Well that could be argued that you should be aware of the data type, but thats another thread . I think the point of the learning process is not to get everything right at the start, but to get the mentality of programming before you move on to something more advanced. Yes, it will require extra learning, but if bad habits die hard then so be it . Hey, Application Programming is a great field

I do agree that VB, Delphi and similar have bad styles of coding, but for someone who does not know how to program, I would rather they learn something that can understand and relate to (since they do have somewhat similarities to the English language even if its minimal) with a few days learning, than be scared off by the close to machine style language C or similar it incorporates.

This is coming from experience, as I have played around with Delphi/VB at a very early age, and C and similar were too complex for me (what can you expect from a 10 yr old ). But this hasn't stuffed up my understanding on said languages, but yes, it did take some time to adapt (C is a tricky bugger, but learning Alpha before hand has helped somewhat).

Another reason why I chose .NET/Delphi was that it can teach you top-to-bottom, rather than bottom-to-top. When learning to code from an application point of view, it slowly introduces things such as OOP, which can be a difficult concept. The curious can delve deeper into packages and understand how the inner workings are used.

One could, if everything went well, develop games using XNA Game Studio, utilizing their knowledge from C# & VB (although VB isn't support at the moment).

But, this is all opinion based, so I'm not saying that VB is easier, but its all up to what you want to achieve. I was just giving Warfang and others reading a greater selection if anyone was even the slightest interested in the programming field.

Tuesday, October 23, 2007

You can get all of the speed/memory benefits of a lower level language like C/C++ in other languages by using binded libraries. Since Python is actually the interpreted languages with one of the MOST binded libraries (not to mention direct function calling on dll/.lib support through Ctypes), I still would recommend it over any other language.

It's by far one of the fastest of the interpreted languages, one of the most flexible, and (unlike the .NET suite of languages, Delphi, or Visual Basic) doesn't require any form of compiling to test results. This is removing a SIGNIFICANT overhead in coding called the "turnaround time", and actually is often a center point in many of the lower level demo "scene" discussions.

Python is type-less, has one of the most robust packages out of the box for getting things done, and has a very clean syntax with practical symbols on a linguistic level; it doesn't use ";", "{}", or other foreign symbols to human languages.

Well that could be argued that you should be aware of the data type, but thats another thread Wink.

That's really a matter of language and not really a hard constant in programming. Majority of the languages I've used over the years are loose type and don't require compilation. This is one of the entire advantages of using an upper level language like Python or another. Since you don't have to declare and manage types, you can be a LOT more productive and maintain code that is a LOT more readable.

Since upper level languages are so beneficial in every way, there must be a downside, right? Naturally, one of the disadvantages with such a language is the loss of speed in comparison to a lower level one. However! This can actually be overcome COMPLETELY by using a lower level library for more intensive tasks that require heavy CPU load. Python is actually the choice of language we use for developing the Zios engine. The process of using lower level libraries for speed advantages is what we employ as well.

It isn't something commonly done by developers, but such practices are gaining HEAVY influence since they cut production time costs so wildly in comparison to doing everything in a lower level language. EVE online was developed almost entirely in stackless Python using such methods. Interpreted and upper-level languages in general are really the future since time is critical factor to most people. This is really one of the elements that the Zios language and editor emphasize -- simplification even MORE of the development process without loss of flexibility or speed.

I would rather they learn something that can understand and relate to (since they do have somewhat similarities to the English language even if its minimal) with a few days learning, than be scared off by the close to machine style language C or similar it incorporates.

I agree completely with your sentiment, however, VB and Delphi have nowhere near the "english-friendly approach" (beyond syntax) that Python does. While in some languages I agree that learning OOP and other advanced tactics can be troublesome, the concept is very straightforward in this case as everything is treated as an object.

Give it a try sometime.

Tuesday, October 23, 2007

Phil wrote :
I wouldn't recommend touching any languages these guys listed not because they aren't good, but they are very difficult for beginners, especially if you don't have that kind of mindset.

I have to agree with C++ being difficult for beginners (even though that's the first language I programmed with), I ave to disagree with Python. Python is often listed as a language for beginners and is quite easy to pick up. I picked it up in a couple of weeks

Tuesday, October 23, 2007

I'd also like to reinforce that while Python is great for beginners, it's also powerful and robust enough for commercial level software design. Many development groups use it well beyond a standard scripting level language.

Tuesday, October 23, 2007

I probably have to take back what I inferred about Python because yes, it is an excellent language to learn. I was merely referring to C and C++ and neglected Python!

But in a non programmer standpoint, my point still stands that RAD languages such as VB (Visual Studio) and Delphi are probably a good start than non GUI reliant languages such as C++, python, Java etc. The outcome was not to debate about language proficiencies, but which learning experience provides the highest amount of accessibility in terms of the "RAD'ness" of their IDEs. I cannot stress how useful Visual Studio aids in debugging.

But yes, if we are talking about the language alone, I would recommend Python. My bad, for my lack of explanation

Wednesday, October 24, 2007

No problem, Phil. I actually agree completely with your statements. I grew up on languages with a simple and clean interface that fueled development and helped you grasp the concept of an "object" in a physical way.

My first language was actually from a little DOS jewel known as ZZT back when I was 11. Followed that with it's somewhat predecessor Megazeux. After that, I dabbled in the whole Games Factory, RPG Maker shebang for a bit before moving on to Flash AS (action scripting), which is also recommended in terms of a friendly language with a VERY easy to grasp atmosphere. Until the point where I started to get into web development languages like PHP, CSS, Javascript, etc. I saw no point in even veering the slightest from a language that did not have a friendly and direct user interface to guide it.

This is actually one the PRIMARY reasons we are persistent about removing the "tedious" nature of coding by abstracting the Zios Editor to the point where it feels more like raw creation rather than pedantic semantics. That is to say, it's a no coding mentality designed to accomplish powerful and versatile results. To achieve such a straight forward and easy-to-use interface without losing flexibility, we emphasize language, module, structure, and methodology abstractions to a level beyond standard.

Wednesday, October 24, 2007

You guys I`m confused I wanna start working friday and I want a final option Pygame Delphi VB or what(remember I`ve never done this before).I know you`re all good at this but I`m not so what will it be.Thanks in anticipation

Wednesday, October 24, 2007

WarFang_76 wrote : You guys I`m confused I wanna start working friday and I want a final option Pygame Delphi VB or what(remember I`ve never done this before).I know you`re all good at this but I`m not so what will it be.Thanks in anticipation

Boy do you have a lot to learn.....

Perhaps you should start with learning of what you need for a development of a game first, instead of trying to develop one...?

Just a thought....

Wednesday, October 24, 2007

master the Money language and you can make people make you any game oooor learn the hard way,coding and stuff...

Wednesday, October 24, 2007

I don`t wanna make great games for myself if they`re good enough I`ll share them with the public.Nope I don`t need others to make games for me as I said it`s for fun and to find my personal limitations